FSX Making a landable mountain using ADE for FSX

[Tomt478]

Oh and I also enable the 'vission impairment' option in win11 when working with details such as what you pointed out. That increases the size of everything on the screen to as much as I set it to. I can set it all the way to 300% if I wanted to. I usually set it to about 130% when working in ADE because as you said, it's hard to see things in normal display mode. I'll increase the size a bit more and take a look at some of those areas again.

 

[Tomt478]

Could you check out something for me? Down to the SE area of KWR1, there is an area that is surrounded by a boundry fence. This area is at an altitude of 4950ft and has a road that slopes upward to the 5000ft alt. This area used to work fine and the roads that go up used to show fine, but ever since that area over the the left of that area stopped showing the roads, this area has done the same thing. The roads no longer show up. Could you check this out and see if maybe there is something weird with the altitude in that area. If not, then I may have to delete that area and move it up closer to where the roads still show. It looks as if at a certain distance roads will no longer display. I have yet to determine the limits of this distance. It appears to be different in different areas. These roads were working and are not now.

 

[GaryGB]

First, let us recall that BGLComp-compiled airport Taxiway Paths are forced by the FSX run time rendering engine to display at the ARP Altitude.


To use them as "Roads" with a Tarmac surface, you must not use any ARP in your project.

Otherwise, they must be replaced by CVX vector Roads (which would be desirable anyway, so objects "clip" at LOD-9 / QMID-11 Quad borders).


For certainty as to Location, I recommend rather than using verbal descriptions, that you ZIP a saved flight (*.FLT) file and link it here.

In FSX:

Slew user aircraft (any aircraft is OK) to the location in question

FSX Menu > Flights > Save > Save Flight > (fill in title and description) > click [OK] button


Navigate to: C:\Users\[active user profile name]\Documents\Flight Simulator X Files

Add the *.FLT file to a ZIP archive, upload to MediaFire > link it in a reply here.


NOTE: You can save us both a lot of work if you purchase and use Airport Facilitator X (aka "AFX") ...or Airport Studio with its Live In-FSX Preview:

https://www.flight1.com/products.asp?product=afxv1



BTW: If you have not already used PushPin PlaceMarks in Google Earth for "Village" locations, you can save a *.FLT / ZIP / Link each of them too.


PS: I am researching FSX SDK BGLComp and/or ADE compiler limitations as to airport infrastructure object size limits; this is what I found thus far:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/runway-length.21448/


GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

finally, I've been searching for that information forever. So that question is answered, now, how big is each grid square in ADE, how many feet are they in size? Since I am limited to 25,000ft from the ARP in any direction, I need to know how many feet each square is so I know how far out from the ARP I can draw a road.

 

[GaryGB]

Finally, I've been searching for that information forever. So that question is answered.

No; only a test of RWY length as a specific Airport Facilities Data (aka "AFD") Infrastructure object ...has been discussed in that thread.

ADE- and ACES- chose to still keep us guessing / testing ...to see what renders- or does not render- as a result, and in what object sizes / scenarios.

Now, how big is each grid square in ADE, how many feet are they in size?

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/grid-sizes.459073/post-927214

IMHO, do not attempt to gauge size using ADE; use SBuilderX with the FSX SDK TMF Quad Grid overlaid as either LOD or QMID (LOD+2=QMID):

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/flattens.425495/post-633002

Since I am limited to 25,000ft from the ARP in any direction, I need to know how many feet each square is so I know how far out from the ARP I can draw a road.

We do not know that; but it is reasonable to assume AFD objects need to be smaller sizes to avoid burdening FSX run time rendering engine.


CVX vectors can have many vertices, so those are clipped to LOD-9 / QMID-11 TMF Quad Grid borders; Freeway Traffic 'clips' to LOD-13 / QMID-15.

Multiple TMF Quad Grid scenery Quads of various sizes fit inside LOD-5 / QMID-7 sized "Areas" in [FSX install path]\Scenery\ sub-folder.

It makes sense to assume ACES had a reason for structuring FS scenery to work within these size limits and data packaging parameters.


Here is your project in SDK TMFViewer with a QMID-11 Grid superimposed; you may need to down-size scenery object extents for objects to render.

Long story short: A massively huge project Geographic extent (FS covers the entire world) was not intended to be implemented by ACES' FS SDK 'without' content clipping at the TMF Quad Grid and Area level; this ensures that scenery content will be manageable by FSX' run time rendering engine.

You must manually subdivide BGLComp-compiled airport infrastructure scenery objects in this project, to convert them into smaller size 'chunks'.

I am again going to recommend that you convert Taxiway Path / Vehicle Path objects into CVX Vector Roads so they will clip to Quad borders.


I am going to reinforce this point again:

CVX vectors clip at LOD-9 / QMID-11 TMF Quad Grid borders, except Freeway Traffic, which clips at LOD-13 / QMID-15.

A scenery object should be sized to fit in 4,892.0 Meter / 13.12332 Ft. LOD-9 / QMID-11 Quads, or FS' run time scenery engine 'may' not render it.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/flattens.425495/post-633002


Reminder: FSX' SDK docs on CVX vectors state that if a CVX Vector overlaps a CVX Vector object with the same GUID, display of both is 'excluded'.

Are you not able to zoom in and see this in your project ?

This is why I have repeatedly implored you to "clean up" your CVX vector content.

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

Can I actually edit the verteces in SBuilder? That would make it a lot easier. I've been trying to line them up in ADE, and that may be the problem. Also, how do I remove the RX vector lines in my SBuilder project. The ones in there are no longer valid and have been long since removed from the project, but when I try to append the RX SHP , it still shows the old vectors. I need to get rid of the old vectors to implement new ones. I just can't seem to get them out of there without manually deleting each one, one-by-one. Very time consuming. What I'd really like to do is get rid of all the old Vectors (HX,PX,RX) and append the new ones then re-compile everything so it is all fresh and matches the changes in the project. HOw can I remove all of the old vector content from the SBX project?

 

[GaryGB]

Can I actually edit the vertices in SBuilderX ?

Yes; an individual object selected in the SBuilderX workspace can simply be 'deleted'.

Read the SBuilderX Help file and/or review what I previously posted regarding how to select / edit / copy / move / delete objects.

That would make it a lot easier. I've been trying to line them up in ADE, and that may be the problem.

ADE Menu > Lists > Terrain Polygons ...may allow one to delete a selected group of objects (note that the ADE GUI updates very slowly when selecting items in ADE "List" dialogs, so wait at least 2 minutes or more for it to complete internal processing before attempting to Delete).

Also, how do I remove the RDX vector lines in my SBuilder project. The ones in there are no longer valid and have been long since removed from the project, but when I try to append the RDX SHP , it still shows the old vectors. I need to get rid of the old vectors to implement new ones. I just can't seem to get them out of there without manually deleting each one, one-by-one. Very time consuming.

What I'd really like to do is get rid of all the old Vectors ( HLX, HPX, PKX, RDX) and append the new ones then re-compile everything so it is all fresh and matches the changes in the project.

How can I remove all of the old vector content from the SBX project?

In SBuilderX workspace, select objects you wish to delete, delete them, save the Project, and Export a SBX exchange file.

Exit SBuilderX, restart it, and Import the SBX file; deleted RDX objects should be gone.

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

I noticed that I have several polys on top of polys, sometimes up to 5 on top of each other in my SBX project. Am I going to have to remove these by hand? I think that is causing A LOT of my alignment problems. I looked at the file in TMFveiwer and everything is a mess, but looking at it closely, it actually looked as if there were layers of older polys underneath the new ones. I confirmed this by trying to delete some of the polys and found in some cases there are up to five polys stacked on top of each other. It's going to take some time to go in and manually remove these duplicates and then append the new SHP files to get everything into alignment. If it weren't for the PR Maps, I would just start a new project, but I would have to go back and add all the maps again, which would take a long time and be very difficult to get them all calibrated back to where they are supposed to be. However this may be my best course of action.

 

[GaryGB]

I noticed that I have several polys on top of polys, sometimes up to 5 on top of each other in my SBX project. Am I going to have to remove these by hand? I think that is causing A LOT of my alignment problems. I looked at the file in TMFveiwer and everything is a mess, but looking at it closely, it actually looked as if there were layers of older polys underneath the new ones. I confirmed this by trying to delete some of the polys and found in some cases there are up to five polys stacked on top of each other. It's going to take some time to go in and manually remove these duplicates and then append the new SHP files to get everything into alignment. If it weren't for the PR Maps, I would just start a new project, but I would have to go back and add all the maps again, which would take a long time and be very difficult to get them all calibrated back to where they are supposed to be. However this may be my best course of action.

Keep backups.

In SBuilderX, Zoom in and Select objects carefully; compile, inspect in FSX after each is Deleted in the stack of overlaps.

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

After several hours, I managed to get rid of all the 'duplicates' and now I only have a 'clean' project file with all of the correct vectors and polys. I took a look at the project in tmfViewer and everything around the island looks fairly well aligned and even. I don't know how to pull up the AD4 file in Sbuilder to see how the alignments look there. Everything seems to be working correctly though, no sim crashes so far. All of my PR maps are showing up with the blendmasks doing as they should. I am able to use Sbuilder now to place my LCs and my WCs by overlaying images of the MAP,the screenshot of the ADE images, and the blendmask in photoshop to be able to place things in their perspective places along with the blendmask positions. So far So Good, no issues yet. I got things looking pretty good so far. Need to do a little touch-up on some spots but for the most part they look good.

 

[GaryGB]

After several hours, I managed to get rid of all the 'duplicates' and now I only have a 'clean' project file with all of the correct vectors and polys. I took a look at the project in TMFViewer and everything around the island looks fairly well aligned and even.

Good.

I don't know how to pull up the AD4 file in SBuilderX to see how the alignments look there.

If the editing of CVX vectors was done in SBuilderX, there is no immediately available way to import them into ADE.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/export-import-ade-objects.436756/post-738106

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/cant-open-cvx-file.438116/post-752309

Everything seems to be working correctly though, no sim crashes so far. All of my PR maps are showing up with the Blendmasks doing as they should. I am able to use SBuilderX now to place my LCs and my WCs by overlaying images of the MAP, the screenshot of the ADE images, and the Blendmask in PhotoShop to be able to place things in their perspective places along with the Blendmask positions.

So far So Good, no issues yet. I got things looking pretty good so far. Need to do a little touch-up on some spots but for the most part they look good.

I shall look forward to seeing a link to a ZIP containing a set of your latest AD4, SBX, and SBP project files when they are ready for inspection.


PS: I am still refreshing my memory of options for use of vectors in FSX that are terrain mesh-clinging, including both FS9 and FSX-native objects:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/elevation-for-water-poly-on-default-ground.438221/


IIUC, Dick showed FSX may be able to display both FS9-native vector content listed as CVX vector "legacy" in Modified Terrain.Cfg, and not listed.

This would require testing to clarify in which scenarios one must first exclude the FSX CVX Vector to allow display of the (underlying ?) FS9 Vector.


IIRC, neither FS9 or FSX Road vectors used attributes that are not basically similar, except FS9 vectors can be configured as terrain-mesh-clinging.

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

I've still got some vectors that are overlapping that I'm trying to clean up, plus I'm adding in the 'traffic vectors' to be used at a later time so I don't have to add them when I'm ready for them. I can just turn off freeway traffic in the sim so the vectors won't affect anything, they will be there when I'm, ready for them. I found some tutorials on YouTube that explain how I can take models and change them to static models to be used as AI traffic. It's complicated, but it can be done obviously. Once I have everything cleaned up and all my 'traffic vectors' added, I will zip er' up and link it to you, You should only need the ADE files,plus a couple of update vector files and map files where a couple of the PR LC have been updated. If I rename the CVX_Project.bgl file to CVX_poly and create another CVX_project file with nothing but the Traffic and Shoreline vectors in it, then rename that file to CVX_Vectors, will both CVX files still load in the sim? Or can you only have one CVX file. I would like to separate my CVX files so I know which one is what. I want to create separate cvx files for my land polys, my water poly, and my road,traffic,andshorlelines (Those three in one file) so I can keep track of them. Can you have multiple CVX files and they still work?

 

[GaryGB]

Although ACES was proud of being able to combine multiple types of CVX Vectors into a single SHP based output file (compiled to a BGL), it is permissible to put as much- or as little- CVX Vector object types into multiple BGLs, and they will load and overlap each other without interference or need for masking.

So even as little as 1 type CVX Vector per BGL is OK.

Adding them to Scenery Library GUI as separate Area layers allows individual control of display and priority.

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

Good, I was just wanting to clean up my directories and organize things better. Also when I edit something like roads, I don't have to compile everything and just compile the roads. I have a curiosity question, What causes things like polys and roads to get 'duplicated' and sometimes even 'tripled' in ADE? I spent about 2 hours going in and removing all of the duplicates from the project to help me with 'cleaning' up my vectors. I found that is why they always appeared misaligned , it was because there were other polys on top of the original poly, so I thought I was fixing the original poly, but in reality I was working on one of the duplicate polys. What the heck causes this? This is the 3rd time this has happened.

 

[GaryGB]

Good, I was just wanting to clean up my directories and organize things better. Also when I edit something like roads, I don't have to compile everything and just compile the roads.

AFAIK, ADE processes all CVX Vector content into a single BGL, and does not allow compilation of only objects that are "selected" in its workspace.

SBuilderX, however, does allow compilation of only objects that are "selected" in its workspace.

But, ADE does this to minimize the number of BGLs required to render a scenery, which is a goal of FS itself.


That said, allowing FS scenery customization requires longer processing during loading to process multiple instructions in multiple BGLs.

Separating CVX Vector content into distinct BGLs and Area layers in Scenery Library should only be used during design / building a project.

When completed, it is faster for FS loading / more efficient for FS run time rendering engine to process less BGLs and Area layers in Scenery Library.

I have a curiosity question, What causes things like polys and roads to get 'duplicated' and sometimes even 'tripled' in ADE?

I spent about 2 hours going in and removing all of the duplicates from the project to help me with 'cleaning' up my vectors. I found that is why they always appeared misaligned , it was because there were other polys on top of the original poly, so I thought I was fixing the original poly, but in reality I was working on one of the duplicate polys. What the heck causes this? This is the 3rd time this has happened.

I am not aware of a way that can happen in ADE other than loading from a *.AD4 file that has had toggling of object display On/Off used.

One may "forget" what is 'hidden' or placed on a "drawing layer" that can be / must be covered up in order to proceed with a complex design.

That is an invitation to trouble with BGLComp-compiled AFD infrastructure objects, which may not only get overlooked, but become too large.

IMHO, BGLComp-compiled AFD infrastructure objects should be used as sparingly as possible, and CVX Vectors used as alternatives so they "clip".


Other applications that offer toggling of object display On/Off may also be at risk of "forgetting" what is 'hidden' or placed on a "drawing layer".

In Sketchup, for example, one may not only hide objects, but place them on Layers which may impact where / how they are allowed to interact.


So one must proceed with FS project design carefully, and pace oneself, so that important details and procedural requirements are not overlooked.

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

I understand. So the 'doubles' probablty happened accidently during all the editing. I'll be watching that carefully from now on. I've been noticing something weird since yesterday. I keep getting polys that are rising WAY above the airport. I don't even know which poly is doing it. I've gone to the general area and replaced all of the polys in the area. It seems to be related to the airport CVX file that ADE creates. Whenever the problem shows up, I have to delete the airport CVX file and let ADE make a new one. Also, I can't get LC polys or WC polys to work right when created with SBX. Any polys created with SBX wind up being dug into a deep cavern. I tried putting a flatten under the poly, but the same thing happens. I read the documents on creating polys with SBX, and I did everything it says to do, but still my polys wind up dug into a deep cavern and not on top of the ground. The poly thing started happening right after I tried using SBX to place my LC and WC. I have to use SBX to place these LC and WC because it is the only way I can line them up with the PR MAP. I've tried several other methods of overlaying the airport image over the PR image in a way that I can actually place a LC, there just isn't any precise way to do it using image overlays. They either don't match up with where I want things, or they simply just don't show up because they are completely in a different place than they should be. So I figured it would be easier to just use SBX which has the maps showing, to place my LC and WC precisely. Boy was I wrong, not at all easy.

 

[GaryGB]

Zip and link the current build SBP, SBX and AD4 files ...and we can sort it out.

GaeyGB

 

[Tomt478]

Ok, but I've tried all I can think of.

 

[GaryGB]

For a quick peek at why CVX Vectors display at various Altitudes AMSL:

* ADE Menu > Lists > Terrain Polygons ...view Altitude inMeters of your project CVX Vectors, as previously show here:
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...mountain-using-ade-for-fsx.459364/post-932071

...or:

* Use CvxExtractor on the CVX Vector BGLs output by SBuilderX, and in addition to ESRI *.SHP files, output a *.BLN file for each CVX BGL.

Then open and view the *.BLN files in NotePad or other text editor.

The record structure of the data has a header line for each object as a subsection, with an X,Y,Z array in the data fields with coordinates that represent LON, LAT, ALT.

Some will match the ARP, some will be "0", some may be different numbers; but they will be Meters AMSL.

Fixing the incorrect CVX Vector Altitudes so they are terrain mesh-clinging ('AltitudeIsAGL') ...will involve use of CVX Vectors that do not link to- or derive from- ARP Altitude values.

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

KWR1_WORK

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www.mediafire.com

Here is the AD4 file with the SBX files and the BGL file for the area I'm working on. I am still not able to make the PR MAP BMP file small enough to upload. Those files come out to be 315MB and that exceeds the 200MB limit. I cannot get that file to compress any smaller. I tried doing it with 7zip, but the created file isn't usuable. I got it to zip smaller than 315MB, but when I unzipped it, then tested to see if it would work, the file caused an error in the sim. They just won't compress successfully to make them small enough. So when you load up the SBX project, you won't see any of the maps. It will show in FSX though so you can see what I am talking about. I put a small lake in the center, and when you fly over it in the sim, it's a great big,deep hole in the ground.