P3D v4 MCX texture converter

[Stephan Ertel]

hello, it's all documented in the SDK learning center.
Bump Maps are the older one's and are just 2D only height i assume. The normal maps have deeper resolution and a 3rd channel for the Z-axis.
NOW THE IMPORTANT THING (more or less )
per SDK 4.5, Prepar3D changed the channel mapping of the normal map (performance, disk space). only THE RED color channel has to be moved to the Alpha channel, fill red with zero (black) AND LEAVE green and blue UNCHANGED!! Not modify any other channel (like the FSX). ONLY RED
- DO NOT use a Bump/Normal-Submaterial in 3DS max. The "bump" map input can handle both.

 

[arno]

Guess I need to update MCX then so that it can handle the P3D v4.5 way as well.

 

[Stephan Ertel]

feel free i've written a little c# tool for that and to combine the metal texture for PBR... but MCX is always on board Great tool!!
I don't know when the normals were changed, i accidentally read it in the SDK 4.5 hlp file. i believe the (wrong) normals were working before, but just with 2 channels but i've not checked the differences...

As i have you here, can i ask you something? I am currently developing a little tool which will create a 3D Model from a Height map Texture. Because other tools like Photoshop are doing the conversion, but end up with 6.000.000 Polygons from a 4096x4096 height map.. The logic is already working great.. I need little help on the DirectX .X model syntax..

Only 2 little things, the bold questions,

Thanks a lot in advance...

.X file, a Mesh-section:
Mesh Plane001 {
25; // Mesh 'Plane001' contains 25 vertices
.......
HERE ARE 25 VERTICES
.......
How are the following faces defined? and what does the numbers mean? Some indexing, right? But how?
32; // Mesh 'Plane001' contains 32 Faces
3; 6, 0, 5;,
3; 0, 6, 1;,
3; 7, 1, 6;,
3; 1, 7, 2;,
3; 8, 2, 7;,
3; 2, 8, 3;,
3; 9, 3, 8;,
3; 3, 9, 4;,
3; 11, 5, 10;,
3; 5, 11, 6;,
3; 12, 6, 11;,
3; 6, 12, 7;,
3; 13, 7, 12;,
3; 7, 13, 8;,
3; 14, 8, 13;,
3; 8, 14, 9;,
3; 16, 10, 15;,
3; 10, 16, 11;,
3; 17, 11, 16;,
3; 11, 17, 12;,
3; 18, 12, 17;,
3; 12, 18, 13;,
3; 19, 13, 18;,
3; 13, 19, 14;,
3; 21, 15, 20;,
3; 15, 21, 16;,
3; 22, 16, 21;,
3; 16, 22, 17;,
3; 23, 17, 22;,
3; 17, 23, 18;,
3; 24, 18, 23;,
3; 18, 24, 19;;
MeshMaterialList {
1; // 1 Materials
How is this list created? for every face a line, but always zero? Or? i dont know, hope you can help... Thankx in adv.
32; // 32 Faces have materials specified
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0,
0;
Material X01_-_Default0 {
0.588000; 0.588000; 0.588000; 1.000000;;
0.000000;
0.900000; 0.900000; 0.900000;;
0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;;
TextureFileName {
"pooldoor.dds";
}
DiffuseTextureFileName {
"pooldoor.dds";
}

 

[Deleted member 1281]

I think this normal/bump issue is a can of worms, and I would wait until LM get their act together in V5. At present, PBR materials seem to work fine if the "normal" maps are converted to the traditional bumps using ImageTool and the -RedInAlpha switch. That's what's happening in the F-16 texture set, the current PBR reference aircraft (ignoring the 60 ft Drone, which, as mentioned before, uses an ordinary 'normal' map).

Anyway, we better see some ocular proof of any claims made. FSX-style bump maps have worked perfectly well in the past, and the SDK Imagetool recipe for them hasn't changed one bit as far as I can see.

 

[Stephan Ertel]

I have no problems with normals, even before i found the change, maybe it was not as deep detailed as now.. i don't know..
And what you did (the imagetool thing) is exactly what i do in the tool. I move the Red into the alpha channel. BTW, this is not ending up in a traditional bump map, bump maps are grayscale, (nothing blueish like NRMLS), which means you can only "move" the shading of the vertices in one axis.. It is still a high detailed normal map. As a note: This normal map req's are also valid for Standard Diffuse textures.
You want ocular proofs? I make no claims, all i do is taken from the cuurent SDK. To get proof 1. Read in the SDK Learning Center (search normal map, section "Texturing Aircraft Models". 2nd: you can also just try my tool, load the pic into photoshop and verify the channels were moved correctly. 3rd: you don't need to use my tool, it was Programmed quick and dirty. There is no approach for your "i don't trust you"

But anyway, because i CAN... Here are some of my testing screenshots. Every bump/space/hole you see is coming from the corverted normal maps. Even the big space between the bricks on the wall are from normals.. Underneath are just 100% flat polygons.. And mixed materials... The cobblestone "runway" and the brick wall is standard texture, Pavement stones are PBR... The shadows/reflections between the stones are looking so mega-great.....

 

[Stephan Ertel]

Hi guys, i quickly locked over your Drone...
1st: you call this normals??? these are scratches just kidding, so dont expect tooo much but the issue is pretty clear.... You have no bumps that are aligned with the Y axis (front to the back).. Pretty clear where to find those bumps... Exactly, they are in the RED channel, wich means, it is as it is
move red to alpha and you are good.. But as told, there are no deep bumps, just slightly visible... I attach an example how a deep normal looks..

 

[Deleted member 1281]

OK, so ordinary alpha-channeled BUMP maps display as required both in FSX materials and in PBR, whereas non-alpha _normals do not. Thanks for posting and explaining the evidence.

BTW it isn't my or our drone. We already suspected that its "_normal" texture was defective, as is the whole "airplane".

In the 3DS PBR material editor, what do you put in the "Normal" slot - the non-alpha normal, or the bumped normal? Would both be possible?

 

[Pyscen]

LOL

It's turning out that the "The Drone" is very defective... but it can fly. Just the paint job was done by someone that had some outside influences (oh-no, Aliens again?! )

 

[arno]

feel free i've written a little c# tool for that and to combine the metal texture for PBR... but MCX is always on board Great tool!!
I don't know when the normals were changed, i accidentally read it in the SDK 4.5 hlp file. i believe the (wrong) normals were working before, but just with 2 channels but i've not checked the differences...

MCX has a feature in the texture editor for quite a while already to do all the channel swapping and changes to make a bump map out of a normal normal map. So would make sense to add the option there to do it in the way the latest P3D SDK describes. That's probably similar to what your tool does.

How are the following faces defined? and what does the numbers mean? Some indexing, right? But how?

The first number is the number of faces. Then for each face the amount of vertices (3 in your example, so they are all triangles), followed by the index into the vertex list of the vertices used by the face.

How is this list created? for every face a line, but always zero? Or? i dont know, hope you can help... Thankx in adv.

In this case only one material is defined below and all faces in the mesh use that material. That's why they all have material index 0.

 

[RED COOL]

Guys please i need to know something
we figured out the Normal map format, great
but is it DXT5 or DXT3 or DXT1
i know that DX1 can't have an alpha, or at least a pure black/white alpha (i may be wrong), so we can move to DXT3 and DXT5, DXT5 (in the SDK DOC) has no difference from DXT3 as it supports alpha, so WHAT FORMAt TO choose?

PS : i use DXT5 for all my textures and my results are good:

(building and jetway)

 

[Deleted member 1281]

DXT5 for the bump map because it needs a gradated greyscale image in the alpha. Dxt3 would work, too, but is much inferior qualitywise.

 

[RED COOL]

DXT5 for the bump map because it needs a gradated greyscale image in the alpha. Dxt3 would work, too, but is much inferior qualitywise.

if I use DXT5 for all my textures, will I get good quality for my model
and are mipmaps recommended or not?

 

[arno]

If you don't need an alpha channel DXT1 is better since they are smaller. The quality of the colour channels is the same in all of them, it's the alpha implementation that differs.

 

[Stephan Ertel]

OK, so ordinary alpha-channeled BUMP maps display as required both in FSX materials and in PBR, whereas non-alpha _normals do not. Thanks for posting and explaining the evidence.

BTW it isn't my or our drone. We already suspected that its "_normal" texture was defective, as is the whole "airplane".

In the 3DS PBR material editor, what do you put in the "Normal" slot - the non-alpha normal, or the bumped normal? Would both be possible?

In PBR also the one with the red-channel moved to alpha.. Normal Map without alpha should end up with the same issues.

Just as a note: Older LEGACY bump maps (the pure grayscale maps, no colors, no alpha needed) are still working fine... at least with standard materials (not tried PBR).. I've used it sometimes when the normal was looking shitty.. The grayscale bump is easy to modify and to create (just grayscale your main texture and use the "Relief" - Filter in Photoshop or Gimp....