P3D v5 rectangle exclude and autogen

[niksan29]

As we know John I do not recommend using a rectangle exclude a large size, but recommends using mini exclude.
I always use mini exclude, but recently I made a use large size exclude rectangle and noticed a problem with autogen it disappeared in this area...

According to the SDK, the exclusion rectangle should not exclude autogen, this makes another tool polygon exclude autogen.

Is this a known issue?

 

[tgibson]

If you set the exclusion polygon to Exclude All, autogen will be excluded. If set to something other than that, autogen should be retained.

 

[niksan29]

If you set the exclusion polygon

you mean polygon or rectangle? they are two different tools

 

[GaryGB]

Hello:

[EDITED]

AFAIK, MSFS-2Kx MSFS_2K->2004 default autogen is excluded by Exclusion Rectangles compiled by SDK BGLComp as IIUC, Tom alludes to above:

If you set the exclusion polygon to Exclude All, autogen will be excluded. If set to something other than that, autogen should be retained.

However, this is not the case for MSFS_FSX / LM-P3D.

[END_EDIT]

Autogen on 3rd party custom Land Class / Photo-real imagery textures is excluded ONLY by CVX vector Exclude Polygons compiled by SDK SHP2VEC.

GaryGB

 

[niksan29]

default autogen is excluded by Exclusion Rectangles

Ohhh... this is news to me
I was sure that this excludes only:

<ExclusionRectangle
latitudeMinimum="51.405190564692"
latitudeMaximum="51.4055332168937"
longitudeMinimum="6.9378487765789"
longitudeMaximum="6.93861767649651"
excludeAllObjects="FALSE"
excludeBeaconObjects="TRUE"
excludeEffectObjects="TRUE"
excludeExtrusionBridgeObjects="TRUE"
excludeGenericBuildingObjects="TRUE"
excludeLibraryObjects="TRUE"
excludeTaxiwaySignObjects="TRUE"
excludeTriggerObjects="TRUE"
excludeWindsockObjects="TRUE"
/>

 

[GaryGB]

Ohhh... this is news to me
I was sure that this excludes only:

<ExclusionRectangle
latitudeMinimum="51.405190564692"
latitudeMaximum="51.4055332168937"
longitudeMinimum="6.9378487765789"
longitudeMaximum="6.93861767649651"
excludeAllObjects="FALSE"
excludeBeaconObjects="TRUE"
excludeEffectObjects="TRUE"
excludeExtrusionBridgeObjects="TRUE"
excludeGenericBuildingObjects="TRUE"
excludeLibraryObjects="TRUE"
excludeTaxiwaySignObjects="TRUE"
excludeTriggerObjects="TRUE"
excludeWindsockObjects="TRUE"
/>

The Exclusion Rectangle compiled by SDK BGLComp shown above should not be able to exclude default or custom Autogen.

http://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv4/sdk/world/scenery/scenery_overview.html#ExclusionRectangle


But, if you also have G-Polys, or any overlooked default, 3rd party add-on, or personal custom project CVX vector Exclude Polygons which load within the area in question, they also can exclude Autogen.

GaryGB

 

[niksan29]

CVX vector Exclude Polygons which load within the area in question, they also can exclude Autogen.

of course, I know this, you also helped me with this in the beginning of my dev journey
but until now the data are contradictory, I did not find in the SDK information that the rectangle should exclude the autogen:

we are clearly told that only a tool Exclude Polygons (compiled by SDK SHP2VEC) can exclude an autogen, not Exclusion Rectangles!

 

[scruffyduck]

default

autogen is excluded by Exclusion Rectangles compiled by SDK BGLComp

This is unreliable. the Fs2004 SDK tools would exclude autogen but no version since is likely to work as I understand it

 

[scruffyduck]

AFAIK, MSFS-2Kx / LM-P3D

If this is referring to FS2020 then again it is unreliable since the SDK is not published and is undoubtedly subject to change

 

[niksan29]

This is unreliable.

oh John here, I just wanted to understand why the exclude rectangle that I added in the newest developer version ade excludes the default autogen...
but if we add are exactly the same exclude rectangle (by the same coordinates) through the stable version ADE, then the rectangle does not exclude default autogen, what happens?

 

[GaryGB]

This is unreliable. the Fs2004 SDK tools would exclude autogen but no version since is likely to work as I understand it

If this is referring to FS2020 then again it is unreliable since the SDK is not published and is undoubtedly subject to change

Hi Jon:

I have edited my post above to reflect the current consensus.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/rectangle-exclude-and-autogen.448356/post-850580


IIRC, years ago, I had originally taken heed of GHD's assertion in an older post from the early days of post-FSX-RTM that we could exclude default Autogen with the "excludeAllObjects" option using Exclusion Rectangles compiled by SDK BGLComp, as IIUC, Tom also asserts above in this thread.

Apparently I must have missed the distinction years ago, as to which FS version GHD's assertion pertained to (probably FS2004, or not specified at the top of that thread's OP), while also missing the distinction as to which FS version this thread pertains to (P3Dv5).

Sorry for any confusion this may have caused.

Hmmm... looks like I may have to edit some of my old posts for clarity, now that we have the (GOOD) problem of there being a new MSFS_2Kx being released in this venerable series.

Remember how many feared for the future of MSFS when ACES was disbanded in 2010 ?

GaryGB

 

[niksan29]

The Exclusion Rectangle compiled by SDK BGLComp shown above should not be able to exclude default or custom Autogen.

Q.E.D., but in my case something is wrong and the rectangle excludes autogen, I sent the files to John for analysis(maybe he can clarify it).
only difference between them is the quantity exclusion rectangles, in ok.bgl 34 small rectangles and one large one that covers them vis 1 large rectangles in no_autogen.bgl, it's all the difference...
But in ok.bgl there is an autogen and in no_autogen.bgl, respectively, no...

 

[GaryGB]

Hi again:

I am curious as to what Jon has determined after analysis of the files you submitted ?

It would be useful for the FS Development Community to know if there is basis for this report questioning whether FSX / P3D Autogen may be excluded by a Exclusion Rectangle compiled by SDK BGLComp ...instead of only via a CVX vector Exclusion Polygon compiled by SDK SHP2VEC.

GaryGB

 

[tgibson]

I can exclude autogen in FSX this way; I've never tried in P3D.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Tom:

Regrettably my available free time has been rather limited of late, to test this (again) extensively.


Another example thread which weighs in favor of Jon's cautionary admonishment on reliability of BGLComp-compiled Exclusion Rectangles for eradicating default Autogen:

Exclusion cause autogen suppression

Hi Garry, I think I got it. It caused by a confusion of Exclusion Rectangle indeed. On the list or properties of Exclusion Rectangle in ADE, there are Beacon, Effects, Generic Buildings, Library Objectes, Taxi Signs, Trigers, Windsocks, Extrusion Bridge. So, I thought it should be used to...

www.fsdeveloper.com

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Hi again:

I am curious as to what Jon has determined after analysis of the files you submitted ?

It would be useful for the FS Development Community to know if there is basis for this report questioning whether FSX / P3D Autogen may be excluded by a Exclusion Rectangle compiled by SDK BGLComp ...instead of only via a CVX vector Exclusion Polygon compiled by SDK SHP2VEC.

GaryGB

Jon:

Would you please tell us what you have determined after analysis of the files the OP submitted above ?

GaryGB

 

[tgibson]

Hi,

He does not mention that they are unreliable, he says they may cause other problems. I have never seen these problems - although I'm not saying they don't exist, perhaps in more complicated scenery than I create.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi,

He does not mention that they are unreliable, he says they may cause other problems. I have never seen these problems - although I'm not saying they don't exist, perhaps in more complicated scenery than I create.

This is unreliable. the Fs2004 SDK tools would exclude autogen but no version since is likely to work as I understand it

If this is referring to FS2020 then again it is unreliable since the SDK is not published and is undoubtedly subject to change

Just to be clear, I'll work with whatever wording Jon actually used and seek a broader interpretation with no umbrage taken, since IIUC, our mutual goal is helping FS Developers avoid complications when attempting to exclude Autogen (...whether default or custom annotation).


I would welcome seeing any links you would be so kind as to post in a reply here, providing further explanation and examples regarding what "problems" you allude to, that may be caused by use of a Exclusion Rectangle compiled by SDK BGLComp ...instead of a CVX vector Exclusion Polygon compiled by SDK SHP2VEC.

GaryGB

 

[tgibson]

I wasn't talking about Jon, I was talking about the person you linked to:

Exclusion cause autogen suppression

Hi Garry, I think I got it. It caused by a confusion of Exclusion Rectangle indeed. On the list or properties of Exclusion Rectangle in ADE, there are Beacon, Effects, Generic Buildings, Library Objectes, Taxi Signs, Trigers, Windsocks, Extrusion Bridge. So, I thought it should be used to...

www.fsdeveloper.com

I don't see anything about unreliability there. I understand that Jon believes them to be unreliable - I'm just saying that hasn't been true in my hands. The problems I allude to are also in that link - it seemed to cause an odd shading of the ground.

 

[GaryGB]

Thanks for that clarification, Tom.

I also have some outstanding questions as to what the cause was for the odd shadowing in that thread.

Although not specified in the OP header, Tic apparently was working with- and displaying ...FSX at that time.

GaryGB