Several Questions about Making Changes to Ground Markings Using Sketchup and MCX

[GaryGB]

Several Questions about Making Changes to Ground Markings Using Sketchup and MCX

Note that: MCX Menu > Options > Texture Settings > Path ...by default already includes the path to [FSX install path]\Texture\GlobalEnvTest.dds Curiously, I also observed that, somehow, MCX "still" fails to detect GlobalEnvTest.dds when loading: [FSDT install path]\Addon...

www.fsdeveloper.com

I'm not sure what you're referring to by Arno, but I'm thinking you're referring to what I've said how I noticed some changes in the material settings when I re-import the mdl.

I was only clarifying that Material Properties / Functionality / Attribute parameters and values were referred to by Arno as "Settings" here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...ngs-using-sketchup-and-mcx.446617/post-835200



IMHO the initial goal of exploring this approach to correcting the ground markings at FSDT KDFW, is working with the FSX format MDL to:

* maintain all original geometry and mapped texture image Materials intact and unchanged

* edit the texture image mapping position of the ground markings to correct the numbers

* restore all original geometry and mapped texture image Materials intact and unchanged

...then output that 3D model with edited ground markings to a FSX format MDL, verifying that it is otherwise identical to the FSDT original.


I recommend learning / perfecting that work-flow for FSX format first ...before attempting to output via a P3Dv4.x XtoMDL SDK compiler.


If your mapped texture image Material count changes after:

* import to MCX

* export to *.OBJ or *.DAE

* import to Sketchup

* export from Sketchup

* re-import to MCX after edited / exported from Sketchup


...I believe it would be in your best interest to troubleshoot that FSX format work-flow first ...before trying to output to P3D format



Note that we have not yet discussed whether MCX will require edits to the ModelDef XML used for processing this FSDT 3D model.

Note as well, that we have not yet determined whether an Earth curve correction of the "ground-level" base plane which this 3D model may already have, causes MCX and/or various import / export functions in MCX / Sketchup plugins to merge 'co-planar' Faces according specific arbitrary 3D planar angle criteria ...which may result in variable loss of Materials mapped to Faces and/or the Faces themselves.


GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

I was only clarifying that Material Properties / Functionality / Attribute parameters and values were referred to by Arno as "Settings" here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...ngs-using-sketchup-and-mcx.446617/post-835200

Oh, I understand now.

I recommend learning / perfecting that work-flow for FSX format first ...before attempting to output via a P3Dv4.x XtoMDL SDK compiler.

Yes, I should have done that in the beginning. But here's the thing I've wondered about. Notice when you locate the FSDT KDFW, it is located in the C\ drive, outside of both FSX and P3D. You will not find the addon in their own simulators, and the addon works for both FSX and P3D. When you go to, for example, C:\Addon Manager\Simobjects\Misc\FSDT_KDFW\model.KDFW_sett07_sf\KDFW_sett07_sf.mdl, I think both FSX and P3D use this same file. Do you agree? So, I thought it would not make any difference, since I'm using P3D 99 percent of the time. I've also wondered if the model should be exported using another export. From now on, I will use the FSX mdl export. At least I can see how the edits will render compared to P3D. But know that when I'm ready to export to P3D and use the P3D export mdl, it will write over the one I have for FSX mdl. I'm thinking that since the developers at FSDT uses 3DS Max and the SDK, it may be possible that I won't be able to export to P3D and it render correctly without using 3DS Max and the SDK. That's why they told me to get 3DS Max because I understand now that's what the SDK calls for. I wish I was able to get it.

...I believe it would be in your best interest to troubleshoot that FSX format work-flow first ...before trying to output to P3D format

Okay, I'll consider that.

Note that we have not yet discussed whether MCX will require edits to the ModelDef XML used for processing this FSDT 3D model.

Yes, you're right about that. I've looked over it in the past but didn't appear to be anything I needed to look into. But I could be wrong.

Thanks for all your help. Oh, by the way, I've just updated to the latest development release.

Ken.

 

[kmanning]

Hi Arno,

Noticed the image below:

Noticed that there are 3 kdfw_23 and 3 kdfw_24. Each one of these have a different material setting. When I tried to create a template for these materials that have 3 or more with the same name, it created them okay. But when I go back to my work again to finish it, there were no longer 3 materials with the same name but only one, and have lost the other two. So, doing this does not work but here's what I thought I could do, and I wanted to get your thoughts on it. Instead of naming 3 martials with the same name and run the risk of losing it and combining into one material, could I name them something like, kdfw_231, kdfw_232, kdfw_233, or something like kdfw_23_1, kdfw_23_2, and kdfw_23_3? This way, I would always have each material in my template.

Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

Several Questions about Making Changes to Ground Markings Using Sketchup and MCX

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/several-questions-about-making-changes-to-ground-markings-using-sketchup-and-mcx.446617/post-836855 I'm not sure what you're referring to by Arno, but I'm thinking you're referring to what I've said how I noticed some changes in the material settings...

www.fsdeveloper.com

Notice when you locate the FSDT KDFW, it is located in the C: drive, outside of both FSX and P3D. You will not find the addon in their own simulators, and the addon works for both FSX and P3D.

When you go to, for example, C:\Addon Manager\Simobjects\Misc\FSDT_KDFW\model.KDFW_sett07_sf\KDFW_sett07_sf.mdl, I think both FSX and P3D use this same file.

Do you agree?

After un-installing FSDT KDFW, re-installing it from a fresh download, then running:

C:\Users\Public\Desktop\FSDT Live Update.lnk


...my FSDT KDFW installation of the MDL under discussion above, is located at:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Addon Manager\Simobjects\Misc\FSDT_KDFW\model.KDFW_sett07_sf\KDFW_sett07_sf.mdl


AFAIK, most scenery compiled for FSX will display properly in P3Dv4.x, as P3D default scenery content is originally FSX (aka "ESP").


FSDT Couatl engine is able to control display of 32-Bit FSX MDLs as SimObjects within a 64-Bit Windows run time task session of P3Dv4.x.

Several Questions about Making Changes to Ground Markings Using Sketchup and MCX

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/several-questions-about-making-changes-to-ground-markings-using-sketchup-and-mcx.446617/post-836855 I'm not sure what you're referring to by Arno, but I'm thinking you're referring to what I've said how I noticed some changes in the material settings...

www.fsdeveloper.com

So, I thought it would not make any difference, since I'm using P3D 99 percent of the time. I've also wondered if the model should be exported using another export. From now on, I will use the FSX mdl export. At least I can see how the edits will render compared to P3D. But know that when I'm ready to export to P3D and use the P3D export mdl, it will write over the one I have for FSX mdl. I'm thinking that since the developers at FSDT uses 3DS Max and the SDK, it may be possible that I won't be able to export to P3D and it render correctly without using 3DS Max and the SDK. That's why they told me to get 3DS Max because I understand now that's what the SDK calls for. I wish I was able to get it.

AFAIK, the same 3D model geometry mapped with texture image Materials output by either 3DSMAX, GMax, Sketchup, Blender etc. are essentially all identical after they are compiled to MDLs by the same FS version of SDK XtoMDL.

Thus, IIUC, those MDLs should not display differently at run time in FSX / P3D.


But perhaps Arno would wish to offer some clarification to that general assertion, since he has no doubt learned a lot about such matters since he began developing MCX, with a goal of converting and modifying 3D models ...which are not always directly generated by the *.ASM / *.X files output by ex: 3DSMAX exporters ?

GaryGB

 

[tgibson]

Hi,

Re: those 3 sets of materials for each texture. They must remain "different" in the MDL file to remain separate upon Import. If the conversion process makes those materials the same, they will be combined in the MDL file and thus again on Import. They must be made different enough so the MDL compiler doesn't combine them.

 

[kmanning]

Hi,

Re: those 3 sets of materials for each texture. They must remain "different" in the MDL file to remain separate upon Import. If the conversion process makes those materials the same, they will be combined in the MDL file and thus again on Import. They must be made different enough so the MDL compiler doesn't combine them.

Yes, I agree. But will my suggestion cause other issues since I'm renaming them with a slightly different name? What I really need to know is that when I export the model from MCX, should those materials have the exact same name as the original FSDT KDFW for it to work correctly or does it matter what name I give them? As you probably know, renaming the materials and exporting them will add additional textures to the FSDT KDFW texture folder, with many of them having the same texture sheet, but with a different name, and I've wonder if that could be the reason for some of my issues. It's strange to me how MCX does not combine the original FSDT KDFW materials having the same name but when I name 3 separate materials the same, they get combined and I cannot assign them the different material settings required. So, the only way to avoid that is to rename each material having the same name with a slightly different name.

Since you used the word Import rather than export, it sounds like you're referring to renaming the textures after exporting from Sketchup and prior to importing to MCX. But can I just rename the materials in MCX when I create the new templates? It much faster this way.

Ken.

 

[tgibson]

This thread is so long I no longer remember your work flow. But what I am saying is no matter how you do it, when the object is Imported into MCX the materials must be different enough for MCX to keep the materials separate. That is obviously true in the image you displayed above, with three materials using the same texture. So the combining must occur after that point. So what I am saying is after that point, the materials are not different enough to keep these separate.

The other thing is that you should be using the latest development release and not something older, because Arno has worked on this problem within the last year or so. So if your MCX is older than that it might be the problem.

As for your questions, I know of no problems generated by having three identical bitmaps with different names - there is no way for MCX or FS to know that these are identical bitmaps. And I see no problem renaming materials, which I assume is simply assigning a different texture name.