• Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:

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    By following these guidelines we make sure that the forums remain easy to read for everybody and also that the right people can find your post to answer it.

MSFS20 Sitting on a hot tin roof!

The OP (like many here), has not yet mastered MSFS scenery creation via the dreaded AXOS (Add-on XML On Steroids).

His original goal was to use default MSFS objects (which have been FUBAR-ed by a 2-year-old MS-Asobo FS birthday celebrant).

Default MSFS objects are already available to use (with thumbnails) in ADE 2020 Alpha-21 HF-5.

Compilation is unlikely to fail if ADE is used instead of MSFS DevMode GUI's enforced work-flow intended to serve MS-Store.


Does MS-Asobo actually think it is a good idea to impose a copy / paste / fill in the data-mining fields / edit XML work-flow?.
:yikes:



If MSFS' objects impose a Collision attribute even if we disabled collisions in a menu, all aircraft are like a bull in a china shop.

I agree with utilizing 'some' MSFS default objects, to allow prioritizing work on our own other important custom FS objects.


Having Arno provide an update MCX for a feature set to configure MSFS collision ON / OFF / Conversion is pertinent to the OP's goals, ...as well as a class of others who want to fix their default scenery objects that are malfunctioning.


And, instead of 'fixing what's broken', MS-Asobo chases a "wild goose" (...purportedly DirectX-12 boosts graphics performance).

IMO, if MS-Asobo saw how DX-12's goose laid a rotten egg for Lockheed-Martin in P3Dv5 they may have reconsidered SU-10.

GaryGB
 
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Correct, the collision box is not present in my custom models. That's why I was hoping I could get the shelters into MSFS and avoid the games of leapfrog. I'm not sure how editing the stock library objects would work. Presumably they would need to be renamed and given a new GUID to avoid an overwrite of the original files in their default location. I'm assuming Asobo would be happy with that approach?

What would be useful from Arno, is the ability to output an FSX model in the right glTF format for MSFS. As I think was said earlier, it doesn't do that at present. The option of a collision box would be useful in case it's actually needed.

Does that make any sense?

John
 
Hi John:

Have you considered output of a ModelLib BGL for your custom 3D models, that contains glTF's only ...with no placement ?

Once compiled into a BGL, those glTF's can be added to ADE 2020 Alpha-21 HF-5 Library Object Manager for placement.

I mention this option, as I believe you may find using ADE for placement, and development of projects with subsequent compilation to MSFS packages via a work-flow in ADE is less likely to be at risk for failure compared to other work-flows.


AFAIK, there is not a feature yet in MCX to output a ModelLib BGL ...just a project with a PackageSources folder chain etc..

But there are a few threads here that deal with how to create a MSFS ModelLib.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/how-to-create-assets-objects-library.454490/

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/bgl-asset-groups.451577/


GaryGB
 
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I've not done that since 2007 and the days of "Library Creator" Gary. Sounds like I need to do some hunting to find the MSFS process, but I'll have a look around in the morning.

If I'm understanding what's been said previously in this thread, the conversion of the FSX model through MCX doesn't produce a glTF file in the right format. If that's the case, then putting the converted files into a library won't work either. Is that right or wrong please?

John
 
MCX definitely can output a glTF in the Khronos 2.0 format with the MS-Asobo extensions; it does so by default now. ;)

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/exporting-to-gltf-changed.449898/

Hi all,

The next development release has a change in exporting to glTF. Until now MCX could export as glTF and MSFS glTF. The latter including the MSFS specific extensions. Since this gave a lot of confusing, I have now removed these two flavors and you can only select the glTF format while exporting. There is a new object writer settings that can be used to control if MSFS extensions are included or not. By default this is set to true, but if you want to export a model to a tool that can't handle the extensions (like Blender), you can set the Use MSFS extensions setting to false to save as a plain glTF.

But, IIRC, ADE-2020 will not import loose glTF's like it did MDLs, and insists that only BGLs be used as a source for ADE-LOM.

UPDATE: I may have been was mistaken about the ability of ADE-2020 to add loose glTF's; see this thread:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/models-in-hf2.453401/post-889039

ADE 2020 Alpha 20 HF2 Notes.pdf - Page 3 of 75 - says this:

"Alpha 20 HF1
Updated
* Handling of user added models (user models)"

I had forgotten I read this; (to place objects, I use MSFS DevMode GUI or Sketchup with a Geo-referenced PR-GP via MCX).

My photo-real satellite imagery G-Poly for placement is GIS projected in a non-warped EPSG:3857 file format (not EPSG:4326)


Otherwise, one may use MCX' "Object Placement" feature (MCX Icon Toolbar button_5 from the left end), to place 3D models.

GaryGB
 
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What would be useful from Arno, is the ability to output an FSX model in the right glTF format for MSFS. As I think was said earlier, it doesn't do that at present.
MCX absolutely DOES properly use the default, Asobo provided FSPackagetool.exe to build a perfectly useable scenery package, that in fact, can essentially "edit-on-the fly," in the sense that one can build a scenery project, check the quality of the models, clean that build, create one or several new or edited scenery models and again build to inspect the models, all during a single simulator session.
 
MCX absolutely DOES properly use the default, Asobo provided FSPackagetool.exe to build a perfectly useable scenery package, that in fact, can essentially "edit-on-the fly," in the sense that one can build a scenery project, check the quality of the models, clean that build, create one or several new or edited scenery models and again build to inspect the models, all during a single simulator session.

Hi John:

IIUC, Rick's quote above refers to configuring MCX for MSFS export mode using (1) of (2) Option Parameter Value settings:

MCX Menu > Options > Exporter settings > SceneryPackageWriter > Compile Package = False (default) / True (non-default)

...and alludes to Arno's original allusion to toggling this setting via a MCX Options parameter value ...in his quote above. ;)

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/sitting-on-a-hot-tin-roof.455835/post-906505


This is an MCX enhancement implemented after Arno's release of a MSFS Project "Package" (IMO: source) folder chain exporter.

With the recent changes for scenProc to export to MSFS as well, I have added writing a scenery to a MSFS package to the exporter capabilities. This means that ModelConverterX now also has the same export capability. So if you select “Export scenery” you will be able to export to a MSFS scenery "package" (...IIUC, actually a "package source" file set rather than a full compiled MSFS SDK 'Package'-GGB).

The created package contains a PackageSources folder with the XML and glTF files of your objects and their placement. As well as the PackageDefinitions XML file and a project XML file. This means you can directly compile this package with the MSFS package tool. So this capability can be used to have a quick start with making a package.

If you have just modified a single model, it is probably easier to export it as a glTF file as before and insert the new glTF files in your existing package manually.

For me it is also a bit searching to see which workflow makes most sense for MSFS. So if there are ideas to improve or change the package export, just post your suggestions in the forum.

Continue reading...


Perhaps a step-by-step work-flow guide may help others still becoming familiar with use of MCX as a MSFS exporter. :idea:

The following is a draft of a guide to get you started, that with constructive feedback, may compel more edits for better clarity.


1.) First, use MCX with this Option Parameter Value in the 'default' setting to create MSFS scenery project core file / folders:

MCX Menu > Options > Exporter settings > SceneryPackageWriter > Compile Package = False


2.) Use MCX Menu > [Export Scenery] button to output a MSFS Project with core folders / source files.

a.) MCX Menu > [Export Scenery] button > Browse For Folder dialog, select ex:

C:\Users\[current user profile name]\Documents\MyFSProjects\[MSFS project name]\ (...this must be an empty sub-folder...)


(1.) In MCX Menu > [Export Scenery] button > Save As dialog > File Name, type a MSFS SDK-compliant scenery project name

(2.) In MCX Menu > [Export Scenery] button > Save As dialog > Save As Type [pick-list], select: MSFS Scenery Package ( *. )

click: [Save] (MCX now creates a MSFS scenery project core folder chain and file set for the current selected / previewed 3D object)


3.) Use MCX Icon Toolbar > [Button_6 from left end] - Material Editor > {Textures} tab to:

* Select the target output folder path for converted mapped texture Materials


a.) MCX Icon Toolbar > Material Editor > {Textures} tab > second line down from Material Editor title bar:

Texture Folder: > (re-assign existing folder path shown) > click: [Select Folder Path] button to right of any existing folder path


(1.) In MCX Icon Toolbar > Material Editor > {Textures} tab > Browse For Folder dialog, select ex:

C:\Users\[current user profile name]\Documents\MyFSProjects\[MSFS project name]\PackageSources\modellib\texture


NOTE: Target texture Material output folder name is spelled as texture ...but not texture(s)

If a \texture sub-folder (under \modellib folder) does not already exist, click: [Make New Folder] button to create it

(2.) click: {OK] button


4.) Use MCX Icon Toolbar > Material Editor > {Textures} tab to convert source Texture Materials to 'PNG' and 'Multiples of 4'

a.) MCX Icon Toolbar > Material Editor > {Textures} tab > second line down from Material Editor title bar:

Texture Format: > (re-assign Texture format) > click: Texture Format [pick-list] button to left of [Save Textures] button > click: PNG


b.) MCX Icon Toolbar > Material Editor > {Textures} tab > second line down from Material Editor title bar:

click: [pick-list] button to right of [Save Textures] button > check: these (2) check boxes...

[x] Ensure size multiple of four

[x] Over-write existing textures (if any already exist, and only in selected target folder path)


c.) click: [Save Textures] button (MCX now processes all mapped textures only for current selected / previewed 3D object)

d.) click: [x] button in Material Editor > {Textures} tab dialog box title bar top right corner to Exit back into MCX work-space...


5.) Use MCX Menu > [Export Scenery] button to output an updated MSFS Project with core folders / source files

a.) MCX Menu > [Export Scenery] button > Browse For Folder dialog, select ex:

C:\Users\[current user profile name]\Documents\MyFSProjects\[MSFS project name]\ (...the name already exists inside this sub-folder...)


b.) In MCX Menu > [Export Scenery] button > Save As dialog > File Name [pick-list], select the MSFS scenery project name

c.) In MCX Menu > [Export Scenery] button > Save As dialog > Save As Type [pick-list], select: MSFS Scenery Package ( *. )

click: [Save] (MCX updates a MSFS scenery project core folder chain / file set for the current selected / previewed 3D object).


6.) In Windows File Explorer (aka "This PC"):

a.) Navigate to MSFS SDK Samples\SimpleScenery folder chain on your local storage drive.

(1.) Select and copy this sub-folder chain and the blank 'place-holder' thumbnail file inside it, marked in Red, ex:

[MSFS SDK path]\Samples\SimpleScenery\PackageDefinitions\mycompany-scenery-simple\ContentInfo\Thumbnail.jpg


b.) In Windows File Explorer (aka "This PC"):

(1.) Navigate to the new MCX-created MSFS Project folder chain, ex:

C:\Users\[current user profile name]\Documents\MyFSProjects\[MSFS project name]


(2.) Under ex: C:\Users\[current user profile name]\Documents\MyFSProjects\[MSFS project name] folder chain, navigate to:

\PackageDefinitions\ sub-folder, then under that folder make a New Folder, also named [MSFS project name]

(3.) Into ex: \PackageDefinitions\[MSFS project name] sub-folder, paste the \ContentInfo\Thumbnail.jpg sub-folder / file.


7.) Navigate to [MSFS SDK path]\Tools\bin\

a.) Copy fspackagetool.exe into Windows clipboard

(1.) Navigate to:

C:\Users\[current user profile name]\Documents\MyFSProjects\[MSFS project name] folder chain,

(2.) Paste fspackagetool.exe from the Windows clipboard into that target [MSFS project name] folder chain

b.) Drag-and-Drop:

C:\Users\[current user profile name]\Documents\MyFSProjects\[MSFS project name]\[MSFS project name.XML]

...onto fspackagetool.exe


NOTE:
This launches the SDK to compile your [MSFS project name] into a (hopefully) working MSFS Package


BTW: I have not yet tested MCX with the other option which IIUC, Rick had cited above:

MCX Menu > Options > Exporter settings > SceneryPackageWriter > Compile Package = True


Alternatively, one may be able to open the updated project XML output by MCX in ADE 2020 Alpha-21 HF-5, or DevMode GUI.


OK, its nearly 1:00 A.M. here, so that's all for tonight. 🥱

GaryGB
 
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I thought MCX does output a glTF file in the right format for MCX. It's the same option that we use successfully to convert an FSX AI aircraft model to glTF to be worked on subsequently to make an MSFS AI aircraft.

I'm really confused now, having read through the thread Gary posted and I'm now unsure whether or not a converted FSX scenery model can indeed be placed in MSFS via the Scenery Editor, as an object, a scenery item and/or as a library in ADE 2020. Gary's detailed process post came in while I was typing this, so I haven't digested it yet, but it looks quite intimidating. I'm also worried about disturbing my MCX settings used to export the AI models and rendering that inoperative, but I guess I could use two different MCX installations. Thanks Gary for staying up late and working on it.

If I were to make the shelter model available here, would anyone be willing to see if they could get it into MSFS please? If successful and the process steps could be listed (maybe Gary's can be used for the MCX part of the process), that would be incredibly useful for the future of our AI projects. It would also save me going around in more and more circles, trying myself. I just don't have the experience yet to navigate this beast and repeated cycling of failure just drives me away from it. If I had a model answer, demonstrated to work, that would be incredibly useful to me and I'm sure to others too.

John
 
Hi John:

IIUC, Rick's quote above refers to configuring MCX for MSFS export mode using (1) of (2) Option Parameter Value settings:

MCX Menu > Options > Exporter settings > SceneryPackageWriter > Compile Package = False (default) / True (non-default)

Hi! I'm right here. :wave: You're close, but we've come a long way. I look forward to the day that I know you are comfortable with me commenting on your behalf.

I am a little disappointed how this has progressed. The goal had been to get one hangar into MSFS and it's turning into a novel. I had messaged to "perform a 'dry run,'" to have MCX create the proper file structure, but when that turned into a negotiation, we explored just using the SimpleScenery project and this path to get the hangar into MSFS does not need the MCX Package Build function. All John needs to do is export his glTF and textures from MCX as glTF model/texture, replace the same in the SimpleScenery project, his hangar will build with the name "green box," or whatever is default and he can test and learn. from there, imo.

I messaged what I considered to be a very careful procedure and I thought it had been going pretty well, until we got side tracked, but please, look above you can see in the console screenshot, "508" items successfully built. Look also, to the next image below, it is the only CASC CH-7 Rainbow drone in MSFS, a scratch built hack built AI aircraft created for the scenery, by Frankensteining it with the default SimpleAircraft, also using MCX primarily and despite the fact the MCX package builder does only scenery packages.

Finally, I'm not one to lead a horse to water, I prefer to help him find his way. I feel like I've already told you exactly how to do that shelter and it would not help at all, to download and build it for you. It is because the problem is not in what has been told, the problem is in what has been understood and for that, we need "feedback." We could pile you with Heisenberg's theory of general relativity and then ask you to report, we could pile you with a page of instructions, before you get a chance to reply, or we can go a step at a time. I'm in no rush.
 
Sorry about that Rick, but I got lost in the fog of advice. I'm going to walk the dog and when I get back I'll try the Simple Scenery approach.

Update - I'm making progress. I have the converted shelters visible in the scenery editor, but they are not textured, even though the PNG textures are in the texture folder. That might be because I have not renamed all the project folders, files and the paths in the xml correctly, so I'm going to check those through and carry on later this afternoon.

John
 
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Also, if you insist on converting your models to gltf, you can use MCX to convert them as generic gltf instead of MSFS gltf, and they probably will display just fine. You only need to convert to the MSFS subset if you need the special materials available for MSFS.
 
Totally forgot Dicks discovery. I still feel like the SimpleScenery approach is the best way to understand the SDK, Dicks trick might be easier to test the theory that non default objects will allow AI to drive through.

Sorry about that Rick, but I got lost in the fog of advice. I'm going to walk the dog and when I get back I'll try the Simple Scenery approach.

Update - I'm making progress. I have the converted shelters visible in the scenery editor, but they are not textured, even though the PNG textures are in the texture folder. That might be because I have not renamed all the project folders, files and the paths in the xml correctly, so I'm going to check those through and carry on later this afternoon.

John
If the shelters are present in the Scenery Editor, that is sufficient for placement and testing. You'll be glad to learn that the greatest uncertainty is behind you. You now have a path, to enter the sim with your own objects and it's just a matter of tuning it in. One mistake I make, is to convert textures to .PNG format and save, but then I neglect to save or compile that version of the model, so the model left in my modellib, points to .bmp's or something other than the .png textures, even though the paths are correct, so you might check that.
 
Yes I certainly feel more comfortable now, but I'm not quite there yet.

The Gmax model points to .bmp textures. I had assumed that MCX would alter that. Do I go back to Gmax and specify PNG textures - I think it will let me do that and re-compile?

This afternoon, I have had the shelters visible in the scenery editor (un-textured), but the whole MSFS window is now very dull - sort of semi greyed out. I can still see the shelters in the object list but I can't now add them. I also can't call up a polygon to exclude the hangars that the shelters replace.

My guess was that I have something wrong in the folder structure/content/xml text/, amended in the copy of the SimpleSceneryfolder, but I've been through all of that at least 4 times and I can't see anything wrong. I have also changed the project name and associated naming to a simple "jyshelters" because I kept getting a message that a name with mixed case is an error. It still objects to the cut down name.

Unless you can spot what's likely to be wrong, I'll start again from fresh in the morning and have another go.

John
 
Do you wish to convert an entire BGL library? MCX can do that as well. Perhaps this thread should be moved to the MCX forum?
 
Yes I certainly feel more comfortable now, but I'm not quite there yet.

The Gmax model points to .bmp textures. I had assumed that MCX would alter that. Do I go back to Gmax and specify PNG textures - I think it will let me do that and re-compile?

This afternoon, I have had the shelters visible in the scenery editor (un-textured), but the whole MSFS window is now very dull - sort of semi greyed out. I can still see the shelters in the object list but I can't now add them. I also can't call up a polygon to exclude the hangars that the shelters replace.

My guess was that I have something wrong in the folder structure/content/xml text/, amended in the copy of the SimpleSceneryfolder, but I've been through all of that at least 4 times and I can't see anything wrong. I have also changed the project name and associated naming to a simple "jyshelters" because I kept getting a message that a name with mixed case is an error. It still objects to the cut down name.

Unless you can spot what's likely to be wrong, I'll start again from fresh in the morning and have another go.

John

IMHO, these imposed naming rules are "gotchas" from the MSFS SDK kissing up to the data-mining agenda of MS-Store.

We know IRL, ICAO's / IATA's are all Caps, and Initial Caps are used for proper names etc.; but MS has promises to keep. :stirthepo

As this is a flight simulator, IMO, MS should re-write database requirements for MS-Store data-mining to accommodate FS.


I detailed above how to use MCX for manual texture format conversion; that writes the URI strings into 3D models after export.

Beyond naming issues / unresolved URI's in glTF's, 3D models may not display if pixel arrays are not "Multiples of 4" / "8x8".

While I have no doubt that you are well-acquainted with the necessity for using "Powers of 2" pixel arrays with DXT BMP and/or DDS textures, MSFS SDK imposed a requirement that pixel arrays with PNG (or JPG) texture sources be "Multiples of 4" and 8x8 minimum.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/what-texture-file-format.453697/post-891353

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/mcx-crash-on-resize-all-to-multiple-of-4.455625/


AFAIK, MCX still does not perform this conversion automatically; thus we must use MCX Material Editor > {Textures) tab manually. :banghead:

GaryGB
 
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The textures are 1024 x 1024 so no problem there. I'll try Gmax with PNG textures, if not I'll see if I need to tweak them in MCX to get them to display.

John
 
Do you wish to convert an entire BGL library? MCX can do that as well. Perhaps this thread should be moved to the MCX forum?

Hi Dick:

I believe that once we address the OP's issue with MSFS' "Collision Mesh" FUBAR-ed default models, we might split this thread.

I would be glad to take my very rough draft W.I.P. 'outline' guide ...offline, and back into the editor until ready for release.


Perhaps the fate of this thread might consider what John himself chooses to do:

* Use MSFS default objects that require tweaking to "un-FUBAR" them from a malfunctioning "Collision Mesh" attribute

...or:

* Use custom objects that are properly configured, and thus are not FUBAR-ed.


AFAIK, it seems MAIW may wish to convert their legacy format work into MSFS without 'porting' via FSX Compatibility mode.

If so, then we might do well in (1) or more threads, to sort out an easier-to-follow work-flow that makes use of such examples as you personally have previously posted over the last (2) years here, that deal with Asset Groups, Libraries, generic Khronos glTF's versus MSFS-Extended glTF's, and/or how legacy FSX Compatibility mode MSFS "Project" output formats are rendered.

BTW: I am appalled MSFS' SDK "SimpleScenery" example still uses a modellib name which risks FUBAR-ing custom projects that naively follow recommendations of a preponderance of existing tutorials out in the wild, that also use a modellib name.

And of course there is the reported issue of MSFS' own default scenery making use of the modellib name, which also risks FUBAR-ing custom projects that naively follow recommendations of a preponderance of existing tutorials out in the wild, that also use a modellib name.

Thanks for emphasizing we must correct this by re-naming of a "simple" duplicated modellib name ...into a custom name. :)

GaryGB
 
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The good news this morning is that I have managed to get the shelters into the scenery editor, using Ricks method and I have them textured. I just needed to change the format to PNG in MCX.

After the Build, I did a quick test to load the scenery from the Community folder, but for some reason I couldn't see it in the sim. I'm surely getting there, but just need to rectify that last problem, add the AI and test and I think the problem is then solved. I'll confirm when I've done that.

John
 
Success - my Gmax FSX shelter model is now in MSFS:

bnux4nS.jpg


It doesn't have a collision box around it, so aircraft pass happily under the canopies.

Rick's suggestion to use the SimpleScenery template was in reality, quite simple as a process, especially after I changed the textures to PNG in MCX. It was just a case of getting familiar with the different windows and pressing the right buttons.

My next step is to work out how to edit the parking and test a traffic file. At the moment I can't detect the spots, but I'm sure I can find the way to do that. I did the previous test in ADE 2020 using the 2-way facility.

My thanks to Rick and to everyone else who helped me through the fog to get there.

John
 
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