Transferring P3D v4 (and earlier) project files to use with P3D v5

scruffyduck

Administrator
Staff member
FSDevConf team
Resource contributor
It's common knowledge, or should be, that LM have updated stock airports in significant ways. Aside from adding the ability to build sloped airports they have recompiled all the airports and added many new buildings and other objects. It also appears that some stock objects in V4 and earlier are not in v5. The differences can be demonstrated and hopefully handled with ADE.

NOTE. If you are not using P3D v5 and do not intend to use it then you can pretty much ignore this post.

Let's take an example. You have a project created for v4 and want to use it in v5. You might just transfer the compiled bgl file(s) to v5 and fire up the sim. You may find it works. More likely you will find a raft of new objects appearing.

There are three (one new) tools that help handle stock data. Stock data is information coming from the stock files that is related to or located on the airport. Some of these are in airport files (APX) but they are also in navaid (NVX) and object (OBX) files.

Load Stock Data This tool searches though stock files to locate those objects, signs etc that are displayed in sim for the default airport. There are a bunch of others that ADE will find like approaches, fixes and comms. Generally these are for information and are read only. When you load stock data ADE makes a copy of what it finds and places this in the project. At the same time it creates a small exclusion rectangle (micro exclude) which is co-located with object. The purpose of the micro exclude is to hide the object in the stock file. If you want to delete or move it then you do that in ADE and the micro exclude stops the stock file item showing through in the sim. ADE automatically loads the stock data information when you open an airport from stock. Load stock data does some other things like removing duplicated objects and signs

Remove Stock Data This is not well named. Using it does not delete the stock item in the stock file but it removes all information about stock objects and micro excludes from the project. So stock items will show in the sim. You might use this prior to Loading the Stock Data again.

Remove Stock Data Stock Status Again lousy name. The main use of this is in cleaning up a v4 or earlier project for use in v5. It does two things. First it changes the stock status of any objects or signs so they are no longer stock, and second it removes the micro excludes. Effectively they become just like any other user placed object or sign. The Remove Stock Data tool will ignore them.

There are several transfer scenarios:

Open a v5 stock airport in v5 This is just like any other project and you can just work on it as usual

Open a v4 project in v5 where the v4 project has excluded all v4 stock data You may have this if you just deleted all stock items and added your own. There are no stock objects apparent in the display but there will be lists of comms, approaches and so on plus micro excludes for the v4 stock objects. The process here is first to create a safe copy of the v4 project and then load it into ADE for v5. Save the project in v5 Use Remove Stock Data to get rid of the v4 stuff and then Load Stock Data to add the v5 replacements, You should then be able to proceed as if it were a v5 project.

Open a v4 project in v5 where some v4 stock items remain in the project. This will happen if some of the v4 objects were retained as part of the addon. As above first make a safe copy, load into v5 and save the project. Now the project will display v4 stock placements and contain all the micro excludes. If you decide you don't want to keep the v4 stock objects for the v5 project just run Remove Stock Data and then Load Stock data as before. If you do want to keep them then you should first run Remove Stock Data Stock Status and turn all the v4 object placements into user objects in the v5 project. Then run Remove Stock Data and Load Stock Data and the project should contain your v4 placements and new v5 ones. All objects and taxi signs will now display whether they are stock or not in the tooltip and also in the Lists Be aware that you may see some black box objects. This will happen if the stock object in v4 is no longer available in v5.

I will shortly post an example of the above which demonstrates the differences between v4 and v5 versions of KHUT

UPDATE

For completeness I need to include the approach of using multiple overlapping exclusion rectangles covering the entire airport area. This will work in some cases but suffers from the weakness of accurate placement of exclusions when the objects to be excluded are not visible in ADE and also potential conflicts between overlapping exclusions. There can also be issues with jetways under large exclusions. Although the methods above are more complex and time consuming the results are likely to be better.

Here is an example where exclusion rectangles were used in a v4 project to exclude all objects, signs etc and at the same time works in v5 excluding stock from there.

1592836895414.png


As far as I can see there are no micro excludes but the developer used 63 rectangles to cover everything

1592836980552.png
 
Last edited:

scruffyduck

Administrator
Staff member
FSDevConf team
Resource contributor
KHUT Hutchinson Mun airport from v4 loaded into ADE has 117 micro excludes, 19 scenery objects and 98 taxi signs. BTW you won't be able to see the micro excludes in your ADE since that is a test facility for me to use.

1589465537112.png


I saved the project file so that it can be transferred to v5

Loading the stock airport for v5 shows 136 micro excludes, 35 scenery objects and 101 signs

1589465721920.png


I loaded the v4 project into v5 and ran Remove Stock Data Stock Status. I now have no micro excludes 19 scenery objects (all false for stock) and 98 taxi signs (all false for stock)

Next I ran Remove Stock Data. The numbers remain the same but I have removed other stock data such as comms, approaches, fixes and nearby airport.

Finally I ran Load Stock Data and selected everything

1589466349804.png



There are now 136 micro excludes; 48 scenery objects (14 from v4 and 35 from v5) and 176 taxi signs (75 from v4 and 101 from v5). It seems that only 5 out of 19 scenery objects from v4 are exactly duplicated in v5 and 23 of the taxi signs.

The airport is nicely cluttered especially with signs.

1589466673518.png



This is a small example of an airport change. Of course in practice we would not just bring all the stock data from v4 into v5 and leave it there. In practice you probably won't have all the stock objects in the project and will have some custom objects as well. You will now need to decide how many of the v5 stock objects to delete.

You can also see that the airport layout has been changed. This is true of many of the airports.

EGCW Welshpool in v5

1589467421528.png


and in v4

1589467533274.png
 
Last edited:
KHUT Hutchinson Mun airport from v4 loaded into ADE has 117 micro excludes, 19 scenery objects and 98 taxi signs. BTW you won't be able to see the micro excludes in your ADE since that is a test facility for me to use.

View attachment 57834

I saved the project file so that it can be transferred to v5

Loading the stock airport for v5 shows 136 micro excludes, 35 scenery objects and 101 signs

View attachment 57835

I loaded the v4 project into v5 and ran Remove Stock Data Stock Status. I now have no micro excludes 19 scenery objects (all false for stock) and 98 taxi signs (all false for stock)

Next I ran Remove Stock Data. The numbers remain the same but I have removed other stock data such as comms, approaches, fixes and nearby airport.

Finally I ran Load Stock Data and selected everything

View attachment 57836


There are now 136 micro excludes; 48 scenery objects (14 from v4 and 35 from v5) and 176 taxi signs (75 from v4 and 101 from v5). It seems that only 5 out of 19 scenery objects from v4 are exactly duplicated in v5 and 23 of the taxi signs.

The airport is nicely cluttered especially with signs.

View attachment 57837


This is a small example of an airport change. Of course in practice we would not just bring all the stock data from v4 into v5 and leave it there. In practice you probably won't have all the stock objects in the project and will have some custom objects as well. You will now need to decide how many of the v5 stock objects to delete.

You can also see that the airport layout has been changed. This is true of many of the airports.

EGCW Welshpool in v5

View attachment 57838

and in v4

View attachment 57839
Jon, I "believe" I have followed your steps correctly and have read and re-read your details above, but for whatever reason, I still end up with all of the v5 stock objects in the v4 project that I brought over to v5.
In my case, I followed your direction in the section "Open a v4 project in v5 where some v4 stock items remain in the project. " as I did have a few stock objects that I wished to retain. After doing as you stated, except I did NOT import ALL of the Stock Options, only Comms, Airports, Navaids, and Approaches. I compiled the result and fired up P3Dv5 and all of the V5 scenery objects are shown. To date, the only way I can eliminate all of these stock objects that are now seen in v5 is to create and "exclusions" folder in the V5 Scenery Library with all of the objects deleted for a particular airport.
What have I done wrong or have I read something into the above that is not meant to be?
Thanks in advance.
 

scruffyduck

Administrator
Staff member
FSDevConf team
Resource contributor
Simply you did not import the most important groups scenery objects and signs. and then delete them all
 
No worries :)
Jon, I have run into a problem with PHNL where in after following your above instructions, there remains "stock objects" when my compiled project is loaded and run in P3Dv5. That said, these stock objects are few and appear to be localized to a specific area of PHNL (in my case, its the Hickam Military space). These objects do NOT appear in my project file and I find the only way to eliminate them is to add an exclusion rectangle for each object based on the coords for each in the stock bgl. All other stock objects follow the process you stated above and that process for other projects works perfectly but for PHNL and only a certain section of PHNL that is the problem.
Any thoughts, else I will just stick with putting exclusion rectangles in my project file for this stock objects.
Thanks in advance.
 

scruffyduck

Administrator
Staff member
FSDevConf team
Resource contributor
Could you share your project files with me please? The v4 one prior to attempting to update to v5 and the updated one for v5. I do know that some airports that are close together can generate problems. It is also possible that the radius ADE is using to find and define what is treated as stock for an airport is too small. I changed it recently since some new v5 airports have masses of new scenery objects, buildings and signs. I planned to make it user definable but I do not recall doing that.
 
Could you share your project files with me please? The v4 one prior to attempting to update to v5 and the updated one for v5. I do know that some airports that are close together can generate problems. It is also possible that the radius ADE is using to find and define what is treated as stock for an airport is too small. I changed it recently since some new v5 airports have masses of new scenery objects, buildings and signs. I planned to make it user definable but I do not recall doing that.
Certainly, no problem. Here are the original v4.5 ad4 and the new v5 ad4 (After the process above). The area in question is just at/beyond the red circle on the west end of PHNL (Rwy 8L). I have included a screen shot of the v5 compiled ad4 noting the objects that are from the "stock" bgl. Although the Hickam tower is there, I strongly suspect it is "double", one from original ad4 and one from the v5 stock...super imposed on top of one another.
 

Attachments

scruffyduck

Administrator
Staff member
FSDevConf team
Resource contributor
Actually, you can see them. Open up the Exclusions List, select all and finally the Select in Display button.
That's a bug. I opened them for testing and looks like I forgot to hide them again in the list view
 
Well, it's somewhat useful during the 4 to 5 conversion process, as it allows seeing the locations of all types of stock objects at once. Reversing the List process can be used to hide them all again.
 

scruffyduck

Administrator
Staff member
FSDevConf team
Resource contributor
OK - I just don't want 'Joe Average' user going into the Exclusion Rectangle list and deleting all the micro excludes
 

tgibson

Resource contributor
Hi,

Another way to see the micro excludes is to open the compiled airport BGL file in ADE. I do not use this for editing, only to find out where they are.
 
I am making my old afcads of BlueSkyScenery suitable for P3Dv5 with ADE 1.79 . But very time I have completed an afcad with default jetways combined with a gate/parking , the jetways are not visible anymore. Is this common ?
Joop
www.BlueSkyScenery.com
 
Top