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Tutorial: Approaches

I have a approache ILS over a runway close for takeoff, and the AI trafffic not seek to this approache for landing

What is wrong?

<Runway
lat="1.48059397370136"
lon="-75.4866522962512"
alt="787.402F"
surface="SAND"
heading="169"
length="1780.0M"
width="40.0M"
number="17"
designator="NONE"
patternAltitude="1500.0F"
primaryTakeoff="NO"
primaryLanding="YES"
primaryPattern="LEFT"
secondaryTakeoff="YES"
secondaryLanding="YES"
secondaryPattern="LEFT">


Approach
type="ILS"
runway="17"
designator="NONE"
suffix="0"
gpsOverlay="FALSE"
fixType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT"
fixRegion="SK"
fixIdent="FF17N"
altitude="2800.0F"
heading="169"
missedAltitude="3800.0F">
<ApproachLegs>
<Leg
type="IF"
fixType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT"
fixRegion="SK"
fixIdent="IF17N"
altitudeDescriptor="+"
altitude1="2800.0F"
/>
<Leg
type="CF"
fixType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT"
fixRegion="SK"
fixIdent="FF17N"
flyOver="FALSE"
theta="0"
rho="0.0N"
magneticCourse="173"
distance="4.0N"
altitudeDescriptor="+"
altitude1="2800.0F"
/>
<Leg
type="CF"
fixType="RUNWAY"
fixRegion="SK"
fixIdent="RW17"
flyOver="FALSE"
theta="0"
rho="0.0N"
magneticCourse="173"
distance="6.0N"
altitudeDescriptor="A"
altitude1="837.402F"
/>
</ApproachLegs>
<MissedApproachLegs>
<Leg
type="CF"
fixType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT"
fixRegion="SK"
fixIdent="HH17N"
flyOver="FALSE"
theta="0"
rho="0.0N"
magneticCourse="173"
distance="10.0N"
/>
<Leg
type="HM"
fixType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT"
fixRegion="SK"
fixIdent="HH17N"
turnDirection="R"
magneticCourse="173"
time="1"
/>
</MissedApproachLegs>
</Approach>
 
danfoster said:
What runway are the ai traffic using for landing, and what is the wind?
Click to expand...


rwy 35 winds 225 to 0.

I have understood that if an app ils is set not matter if VMC or IMC was always sent to this rwy

is correct?
 
Last edited:
macp said:
<Approach
type="ILS"
runway="17"
designator="NONE"
suffix="0"
gpsOverlay="FALSE"
fixType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT"
fixRegion="SK"
fixIdent="FF17N"
altitude="2800.0F"
heading="169"
missedAltitude="3800.0F">
<ApproachLegs>
<Leg
type="IF"
fixType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT"
fixRegion="SK"
fixIdent="IF17N"
altitudeDescriptor="+"...
Click to expand...

It looks ok to me. In the code above are you using a "<" symbol at the beginning of your approach header?
 
Mountain Approach

I still have the problem, that my AI-Traffic approaches nearly 1500ft to high to my mountainairport, so they can't land.
The Airport is surrounded by mountains in a valley, so you can approach from 2 sides, but my Traffic flies to high my designed approachcode.
 
Some airports just aren't solvable. If you put the FAF too close to the runway, some AI will keep missing and going around until they are zapped. But if you move the FAF too far away, the AI may try to fly through mountains. If you have enough room you should be able to do a curved approach to the FAF, but if it is tight there may be no solution. At least, that is what I have found.

scott s.
.
 
according to Jim's explanations I created an ILS approach (without ILS) at Madeira (LPMA).

It looks fine in ADE, but not in the GPS:








any idea?
:confused:
 
Jim needs to answer this however one thing I am aware of is that ADE uses a standard aircraft to define an approach. I seem to recall that a different aircraft that is faster or slower or has a different rate of turn will show the legs differently in the GPS.
 
thanks Jon,
the snapshots were taken with a Fokker 28, then I tried a Mooney Bravo and a 747-100, no difference at all, but I have read something "aircraft depending" in the past...

perhaps it is not enough to change the aircraft and I should "goto Airtport" for reloading navs?

lets try it...

after reloading fs9 and "goto Airport", no difference ...
 
Last edited:
This needs Jim or one of the other Approach Gurus :D
 
perhaps it is easier for Jim or the other gurus, if I post the xml of the approach:

<Approach
type="ILS"
runway="05"
designator="NONE"
suffix="0"
gpsOverlay="FALSE"
fixType="VOR"
fixRegion="LP"
fixIdent="FUN"
altitude="3000.0F"
heading="212"
missedAltitude="3200.0F">
<ApproachLegs>
<Leg
type="IF"
fixType="VOR"
fixRegion="LP"
fixIdent="FUN"
recommendedType="VOR"
altitudeDescriptor="+"
altitude1="3000.0F"
/>
<Leg
type="CD"
recommendedType="VOR"
recommendedRegion="LP"
recommendedIdent="FUN"
magneticCourse="212"
distance="3.6N"
altitudeDescriptor="A"
altitude1="1140.0F"
/>
<Leg
type="CD"
recommendedType="VOR"
recommendedRegion="LP"
recommendedIdent="FUN"
magneticCourse="212"
distance="7.5N"
altitudeDescriptor="A"
altitude1="900.0F"
/>
<Leg
type="CF"
fixType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT"
fixRegion="LP"
fixIdent="GELO"
flyOver="TRUE"
theta="0"
rho="0.0N"
magneticCourse="312"
distance="0.0N"
altitudeDescriptor="A"
altitude1="850.0F"
/>
<Leg
type="CF"
fixType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT"
fixRegion="LP"
fixIdent="ROSAR"
flyOver="TRUE"
theta="0"
rho="0.0N"
magneticCourse="31"
distance="0.0N"
altitudeDescriptor="A"
altitude1="460.0F"
/>
<Leg
type="CF"
fixType="RUNWAY"
fixRegion="LP"
fixIdent="RW05"
flyOver="FALSE"
theta="0"
rho="0.0N"
magneticCourse="44"
distance="0.0N"
/>
</ApproachLegs>
</Approach>
 
hgschnell

Jon coded the approach mode editor so well it will draw what you tell it to. That does not mean it will display correctly in the GPS or even work as a proper approach.


hgschnell said:
perhaps it is easier for Jim or the other gurus, if I post the xml of the approach:

<Approach
type="ILS"
runway="05"
designator="NONE"
suffix="0"
gpsOverlay="FALSE"
fixType="VOR" <<<<<<<<<<<----- Should be Terminal_Waypoint
fixRegion="LP"
fixIdent="FUN" <<<<<<<<<<<----------------- this should be the FAF (ROSAR)
altitude="3000.0F"
heading="212" <<<<<<<<<<------- Should be runway heading
missedAltitude="3200.0F">
<ApproachLegs>
<Leg
type="IF"
fixType="VOR" <<<<<<<<<---------- Terminal_Waypoint
fixRegion="LP"
fixIdent="FUN" <<<<<<<<<<<<<<------------- This should be the IAF of GELO
recommendedType="VOR"
altitudeDescriptor="+"
altitude1="3000.0F"
/>



Can't have CD's





<Leg
type="CF"
fixType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT"
fixRegion="LP"
fixIdent="GELO" <<<<<<<------- Should be ROSAR
flyOver="TRUE"
theta="0"
rho="0.0N"
magneticCourse="312"
distance="0.0N"
altitudeDescriptor="A"
altitude1="850.0F"
/>
<Leg <<<<<<<<<<<<<--------------- Delete this leg group data
type="CF"
fixType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT"
fixRegion="LP"
fixIdent="ROSAR"
flyOver="TRUE"
theta="0"
rho="0.0N"
magneticCourse="31"
distance="0.0N"
altitudeDescriptor="A"
altitude1="460.0F"
/>
<Leg
type="CF"
fixType="RUNWAY"
fixRegion="LP"
fixIdent="RW05"
flyOver="FALSE"
theta="0"
rho="0.0N"
magneticCourse="44"
distance="0.0N"
/>
</ApproachLegs>
</Approach>
Click to expand...

Write your Missed Approach here

Write your VOR Transition here which will curve with the CD's and connect to the IAF of GELO

The ILS is normally a straight line to the runway as a basic standard. It requires the

Approach Header with the FAF
IF = the IAF
CF = the FAF again
CF = the runway

this makes a straight line to the runway if the IAF and FAF are aligned properly. After the missed approach coding we then add all the exotic curved Transitions to the ILS. The end of a Transitions (last TF leg) is connected to the IAF of GELO.


EDIT

I now see this is LPMA. Are you trying to write a ILS curved approach to RWY 05?
 
Last edited:
since some years without sucsess I try to manage this curved approach for LPMA...

I have landed there as passenger several times since 1996 (even on the olld short Rwy 06) and have no problem to land an airliner with fs2004 as described in the official charts, but AI behaviour is really ugly.
 
How far from the threshhold of runway 05 does the plane in real life turn on final.
 
Guenther

When making curved approaches we cannot bring the AI Plane over the VOR and fly outbound with a 180 degree turn.

There are limits to how much the AI plane will turn. What can be done is bring the AI Plane toward LMPA on a heading somewhere around 330-340 degree (maybe even less then that) and then turn to final for runway 05.

With thses type approaches it is trial and error on how far we can push the limits of AI before the system breaks the approach.
 
thanks for your answer,

if the "master of approaches" says, it cannot be done, I also can give up without problems.

Maybe I try a fictive approach to get AI landing on rwy 05.
Better than no AI landing ...
:)
 
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