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FSX and Ultimate Terrain Canada and US

MEPaquette said:
Gary
Here is another thought.

Can water elevation be changed by changing the altitudes of polygon points?

Just went into my problem area in SBuilderX and found a surprising fact.
One of the polygon point situated in the problem area has an altitude of 234.965...m (767')
While the balance hovers around the 136 m (446')

Michel
Click to expand...

Looks like our posts crossed on the server as I typed my reply immediately above. :)

Yes, SBuilderX can import (Append) CVX vector Altitude values from the ('Z') field in *.DBF file X,Y,Z records of *.SHP files.

SBuilderX can edit any Altitude values in Appended vectors, then compile a replacement CVX vector BGL.

By comparison, TMFViewer can only read / display the Altitude from loaded terrain mesh files.

But we are concerned here, with Altitude assigned by CVX vectors, which can / 'should 'over-ride terrain mesh Altitude.

GaryGB
 
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Hi Michel:

As time permits, I shall incrementally add into this post, links to threads that may help:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/sbuilderx-ft-or-m.437055/post-870296

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...ects-in-sbuilderx-for-katl.444877/post-817582

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/change-the-polygon-elevation-in-the-_cvx-bgl.446626/


Note in above linked posts, I explain how to Append various CvxExtractor *.SHP files to SBuilderX.

In all CVX *.SHP type 'Append' cases, whenever possible, I advise to select GUID during input data parsing:

"Name or Label of Imported Polys > Get from this Field: GUID

GUID of Imported Polys > Get from this Field: GUID"

This allows selected vector object original BGL source GUID to be seen via SBuilderX > Properties

In your example location cited above:

HP12715A.bgl
HP12715B.bgl
HP12715C.bgl
HP12715D.bgl

...UTXCan BGLs must be loaded into SDK TMFViewer in that order, one at a time, to determine:

* Geographic extent within FSX Area 0301

...and:

* Vector ID

For Vector ID GUIDs: Right-click > Identify Vector Features; then correlate with:

https://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv5/sdk/world/terrain/terrain_overview.html#The Shp2Vec Tool

https://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv5/sdk/world/terrain/vector_shape_properties_guids.html


I suggest configuring these SDK Grid overlays to be displayed in TMFViewer:

TMFViewer Menu > View > LOD Grid > LOD-5

...and:

TMFViewer Menu > View > QMD Grid > Level-8

Note that LOD-8 is 1/4 of a LOD-5 quad.

The above listed UTXCan HP*.BGL files are NW>NE>SW>SE LOD-8 quads within the local LOD-5 Area.

The UTXCan Configurator utility expects CVX content to be subdivided into such 1/4 LOD-5 sized LOD-8 quads.

Thus, for UTXCan compatibility, replacement CVX BGL output with edited Altitudes, must otherwise be identical.


After the above BGLs are de-compiled and output as these ESRI *.SHP files by CvxExtractor:

HPXHP12715A.shp
HPXHP12715B.shp
HPXHP12715C.shp
HPXHP12715D.shp

...you will be Appending each file to SBuilderX in separate project sessions.

In those sessions, you will be editing the Altitude of the Hydro Polygons, and compiling a CVX BGL.


I forgot whether a SHP2VEC XML file "Clip" level of 8- versus 11- is used to compile a UTXCan-type CVX BGL. :scratchch


In yet another SBuilder project session, you will create a CVX vector exclude for all those Hydro Polygons so that they will not be displayed at run time, and are replaced by your corrected BGLs.

More will follow on this process later.

GaryGB
 
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Gary
I appreciate whatever time you can spare and any link you can give me.
Research is not my strong point.

Muchel
 
Gary
Here is a thought. Instead of trying to go to the process of excluding an area and so on, can I just load the SHP file and change the altitude of the existing polygon in the problem area and then convert it back to ,bgl file?
I am trying to test this out by myself. I have chosen a couple of polygon and revised all polygon point. But i am having a problem compiling bgl file.
I have tried selecting all polygon and runing bgl but it says I have not selected anything. What step am I missing?

Michel
 
Hi Michel:

To do what you propose, one must first ensure:

* Edits are only to apply a "constant" Altitude to Polygons as whole objects not to individual vertex points

" The only CVX object type output by CvxExtractor for UTXCan HP*.BGLs begin with a HPX file prefix

" The Altitude of all Hydro Polygons is identical

...otherwise one must check IRL Altitude of each Polygon.


Regarding SBuilderX selection, Zoom out until full extent of Appended HPX*.BGL is visible in workspace.

Then drag Mouse to draw a selection Rectangle that surrounds all Appended CVX HPX*.SHP Polygons..

All Polygon points should be RED when selected properly.

Once all objects are properly selected, a compile should be enabled.

GaryGB
 
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Gary
That is the procedure I followed and it did not work.
what is meant by this:" The Altitude of all Hydro Polygons is identical"
If you mean that all polygon point have to be at the same altitude, then there is a problem with the UT file, because not all points are at the same elevation on any polygon. But then I would expect some variation as not all rivers are at the same altitude depending if there are rapids at one point.
(PS: does IRL mean "In Real Life")

I thought maybe that I messed something up with my polygon point edit, So I started from scratch as followed
1) - Extracted file HP12715C.BGL from the UTCanWater/Scenery folder using the "ESRI Shapes" It prodused 4 files: HPXHP12715C.shx, HPXHP12715C.dbf, HPXHP12715C.shp and HPXHP12715C.xml
2) Open up SBuilderX and start new project.
3) Append file HPXHP12715C.shp
4) I am assuming that at this point I should be able to compile the file right back to a <BGL by selecting all polygon either by making a window around the whole group of polygon or by clicking on Select/All Polygon, and compile a .BGL file, but it tells me that there was no items selected.

when I do select all polygone I go "right click" and go to properties. Here is what I get:
1676947955228.png
1676948009570.png


Am I suppose to be assigning a color and waterclass before compiling my file? I though that with the polygon being pink that this was part of the original file?

Maybe this is what my problem is? Could it be that simple?

Michel
 
MEPaquette said:
what is meant by this:" The Altitude of all Hydro Polygons is identical" ?

If you mean that all polygon point have to be at the same altitude, then there is a problem with the UT file, because not all points are at the same elevation on any polygon. But then I would expect some variation as not all rivers are at the same altitude depending if there are rapids at one point.
Click to expand...

Yes, that will be the issue precisely; not all Polygons will be at the same Altitude, so we must edit only those that actually require editing, and leave the other Polygons unchanged.


MEPaquette said:
(PS: does IRL mean "In Real Life")
Click to expand...

Yes

MEPaquette said:
I thought maybe that I messed something up with my polygon point edit, So I started from scratch as follows:

1) - Extracted file HP12715C.BGL from the UTCanWater/Scenery folder using the "ESRI Shapes" It produced 4 files: HPXHP12715C.shx, HPXHP12715C.dbf, HPXHP12715C.shp and HPXHP12715C.xml

2) Open up SBuilderX and start new project.

3) Append file HPXHP12715C.shp

4) I am assuming that at this point I should be able to compile the file right back to a <BGL by selecting all polygon either by making a window around the whole group of polygon or by clicking on Select/All Polygon, and compile a .BGL file, but it tells me that there was no items selected.

When I do select all polygons, I go "right click" and go to properties; here is what I get:

Am I supposed to be assigning a color and waterclass before compiling my file? I thought that with the polygon being pink that this was part of the original file?

Maybe this is what my problem is? Could it be that simple?

Michel
Click to expand...

I will have to defer looking into this matter further until some time Tuesday (Chicago - USA Central time zone).


It may be 1 or 2 steps are needed to set Altitude "mode" / WC map before selecting polygons to be compiled:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...nable-to-do-simple-flatten-in-san-diego.6905/


Note that Luis (SBuilder / SBuilderX author) says we must manually assign the CVX vector type under Properties

IIUC, the GUID Appended via HPXHP12715C.shp must be correlated with its entry in Terrain.Cfg, and assigned ?

After Altitude 'Mode' is confirmed as Constant, and GUID land / water class type is assigned from the pick-list, we should be able to select the Polygons and compile the project to a replacement CVX vector



PS: Remember this thread from 2015 ? ;)

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/water-not-level.433572/

Did you ever see a reply to your original report of the UTX issue at UTX support forum in 2015 ? :scratchch

GaryGB
 
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Gary
GaryGB said:
manually assign the CVX vector type under Properties
Click to expand...
From this I am assuming I need to fill in that water class definition in property before I can compile
I looked at the help file in SBuilder and its not a simple "just click a choice" type of entry. Looks like i actually need to type in something.

Thanks for reminding me of that 2015 thread. I don't think I did get a reply but I need to go check my 2015 E-mails. This was a long time ago.
I will get back to you on that,

Michel


 
Gary
Found my posting for UTX. Only response was something about posting on wrong site (GEX) so posting was moved to UTX forum. No other response.

Michel
 
Gary
Did more experimenting this afternoon.
Manged to assign a Water Class to my file and once I click on the map to add these Water class on the map, I can pick those and I can compile a .bgl file. But all I see are the squares that wee assigned a water class.
So how do I apply the water class to the polygons rather than the background?

Michel
 
Gary
I have downloaded terrain design, which I notice is the same file that I accessed yesterday thru the SBuilder help file.
Unfortunately I see that there is an image directory with all the images, but they are not uploading to the terrain design file.
Even if I right click and press "load image".

That being said, I believe I am grasping the basic concept of Terrain Design, The idea is to first create a file to tell FS not to read those particular polygons of the existing terrain file (exclusion file).
Then create my own terrain file to replace the one I "excluded".
As for the polygon in the .shp file, this is only "guide lines" to help fill in with water class (or landclass and objects). and sets the level of the land or water class within the polygon.
This is why I cant just "fix" the existing file without reinserting water class to ALL the polygons in the existing shape file.
I will continue to examine that Terrain Design file to see if I can work out how to add (or delete) small squares of water class that will closely follow the polygons.
I can add the water class and I see that I can ass in 3 different size of squares, but I don't know how to "trim" these to follow the diagonal lines. I think it has to do with LOD or QMID, But changing the QMID to show smaller squares does not allow me to "trim" my bigger water calss squares in smaller portion based on the smaller squares
I will follow up later after examining the Terrain Design file in more details. It woul help if I could see which image goes were in the file.

Michel
 
Gary
SUCCESS. I got rid the mountain AND leveled off that section of river by modifying about 6 of the polygons around were the mountain was
It ended up to be easier that I thought.

Just one more question. I have noticed that a section of Mattawa River from Trout Lake to Talon Lake is not an any on the UTCanWater or UTCan Stream or even on the original cvx file for that region. What other file could it be under?

Michel
 
Hi Michel:

Congratulations on your progress. :)

Sorry I have been unable to reply sooner, but I have had some pressing matters to attend to IRL.


According to one of my Beta testers with UTXCan installed, the path of CVX files local to Trout Lake is: :idea:

[FSX install path]\Scenery\UtCanWater\Scenery\HP12615(A-B-C-D).bgl / HL12615(A-B-C-D).bgl


GaryGB
 
Gary
I know the path,. Its file HP12615D that contains this area.
but here is a pic from the viewer for that file
1677111034093.png

on the left is trout lake and the right is Talon lake
And this is a top view of thr area on FSX:

1677111750846.png

I don't how clear it is on this picture, but all the small lakes and rivers are on FSX,. So if they are not on UTX,where do they come from?

Michel


PS: don't wary about how long between response. I am busy on work for the next week of so.

Now that I know how easy it is to change my water elevation There are a lot of area Would like to fix.
 
Gary
As a side note, some of the area, for example the channels in New Orleans, )I just checked), have an water elevation of -1. so under sea level.
My problem with that is the I can't follow my progress on my Navionic app I have on my phone, which I link to my FSX Via FUIPC and a Bluetooth GPS app on my phone

Michel
 
Hi Michel:

Generally speaking, if FSX default CVX BGLs are not excluded by UTXCan, and UTXCan vectors do not provide local content, FSX default will render its own local content instead (assuming the content missing from UTXCan is otherwise actually in the FSX BGL).

Note that the UTXUsa package overlaps the UTXCan border with a few files, and also overlaps UTX Caribbean / Tropical package, so you may need those packages for "lower 48 state" USA / border areas to get complete coverage.

GaryGB

PS: I will now have to save battery on my mobile phone browser due to today's ice storm power outage (our turn for an electrical grid crash this time).:yikes:
 
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?Gary

Since I don’t see it in the FSX cvx2615.bgl file, it must under some other “general” terrain file.
See pic below
1677164043330.png


So I believe my best choice will be to do my own CVX file for the missing section to change the elevation of the existing water.

Just have couple of question nagging me. Not that important but I would like to understand what is happening.
When creating the “exclusion .BLG” file. I see 5 files created in the shape directory under SBuilder.
One cvx, and 4 EXX… files. Then when creating the new terrain file for that exclusion, the 4 EXX… files are replaced by 4 HPX…. files.
Does the “exclusion information now become part of the new cvx file?
After the creation of this final cvx file, I was assuming yesterday that I needed to transfer this file to the UTCanWater /sceneries file. I gather that is something that should be common knowledge that did not need to be mentioned.
Something else that I am pretty sure about is that when I change the elevation of the water polygons, that the terrain beside it gets “stretched” up or down to join with the new water elevation. How for does this stretching occur? Is there a particular “slope” that regulates how far the affect goes?

I will also be experimenting with “steep” water slope which is something that happens at waterfalls and dams. Maybe I van go check the Niagara Fall to see haw they look in FSX then the HP file n UTX

I would eventually want to add the dams, but that might be a bit too much to take on until I “fully” retire. First of all, I believe this would be done with G-max, which is in my old computer and I am not sure I can assess it. Next I would need to relearn how to use it, It’s been at least 7 years since I did my boat.

One last thing that I will be looking into is to replace the small island that are presently “flat”. You see those from the air, but from the boat, you need to get close before you can see them. It would be more realistic if they had a bit of bump to them. For that I will read the section on “making an island”.



Michel
 
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