FSX Making a landable mountain using ADE for FSX

[GaryGB]

That's just as I had figured out, basically without expert knowledge, it can't be done.

So I'm going with my backup plan and just placing the custom textured polys in places where a land class is not required or does not exist. I'm not even going to attempt to put land classes in there. You just confirmed what I had figured out a few hours ago. It can't be done unless you're an expert designer that knows the required stuff. It was just a fun challenge to actually make custom land textures, I can use them, but just not like I was hoping to.

There may be exceptions and poorly documented- but actually SDK compliant- methods which can work around that conclusion of limitation.

I'm going to practice working on making those hills now, to at least take some of the "flatness" out of the land and maybe add some "alien" rocks and plants.

I also want to practice working with custom water textures. I think I can do it the same way using custom textured polys, just don't know how it will look and if any of the water effects will work with custom textured polys. If not, I can just use the preset water classes. I'm going to play around with that for a while.

Just one thing, could I possibly use a exclusion poly over the textured poly then place a land class on top of that?

If I can do that, which excl. poly would I use?

Probably one could make a small custom photo-real imagery land class BGL set transparent over the custom water class color polygon via a Blend Mask- with a Water Mask- both entered as Channel entries in the INF file; but I would need to research this latter possibility, and reply later.


I believe you should find detailed explanations of these options / methods in tutorials by Luis Feliz-Tirado, as I previously cited / linked here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/how-do-you-edit-shore-lines.444306/post-927596


GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

I just thought of something, it's a bit of work, but maybe it could work. What if I created a SOLID and flat surface as a MODEL, placed that on top of the Textured Poly (ground), then put a Land Class poly on TOP of that flat and solid platform, could that possibly work?

Models and objects are showing over the textured poly, so I would think that having a thin or even invisible platform under the land class, would allow it to show up since it is NOT sitting on the actual ground itself, basically it becomes part of the model.

Or ...I could create a model (flat and solid) then just add a land class texture onto the model and compile it as part of the model and just place the model on top of the textured poly. That's at least 2 ideas that might just "work around" the problem of land class not being able to be placed on top of a textured poly. Once you create the model using Sketchup or some other 3D rendering software, all you would have to do is just change the land class that you put on top of the model. A little work, but could possibly work. What do you think?

That is good insight into options via FS SDK- and non-SDK compliant methods actually used routinely for FSX SCASM / ASM G-Polys.

FSX has a quirk of showing a "Blue Sky" color with flickering in TopDown view that can only be minimized, but not entirely eliminated.

A work-around for the FSX quirk of not offering VTP layer numbering for CVX vector land class Polygons is use of SCASM / ASM G-Polys.

You can make these in SBuilder9 / SBuilderX, ADE, and/or Sketchup via MCX G-Poly Wizard.

That said, IMHO, a more efficient and adaptable method would utilize a custom photo-real imagery BGL that uses transparent "visual holes" in the image by means of a Blend Mask or Land - Water Mask that allows display of the underlying land or water class texture color.

See: Luis Feliz-Tirados tutorial on this topic as I previously linked elsewhere.

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

I was just wondering, can you make photo-real scenery from downloaded photo images?

I downloaded some actual "official" photos of the Mars surface, these are actual very Hi-Res photos.

Is it possible to make those photos into photo-real imagery that can be used in FSX?

If it can be done, I can learn myself how to do it, I just wanted to know if it can even be done. It would really be nice to have some good land imagery instead of just textures. A project for a later time, but would like to know if something like that can actually be done and actually imported into my airport.

Yes, this can be done.

One can Geo-reference images in SBuilderX, and process them like downloaded imagery tiles, to make 1-piece images for imagery BGLs.

Search for the "Calibrate" feature in SBuilderX' Help file.


GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

There probably are workarounds, but I have yet to discover any. I have one question which is probably just a simple explanation, I just flew over the area where I placed the textured poly, and I noticed that the ground has a slight "dip" in it. Is this caused by the poly itself or should I adjust the slope of the poly. I wondered why my textures look a bit funny and stretched, looking at the land now from above I can see why, it looks like the ground sunk in. I put the poly at the ARP altitude of 137.804 (452.113ft.) so there shouldn't be a "dip" there. Is it that SBX alt. and ADE alt. may not match up exactly and I need to adjust the alt. of the poly (trial and error) to compensate?

 

[Tomt478]

That's good to know, I'm thinking of trying my hand at photoreal imagery instead of using textures and polys, that way I can pretty much affect the entire airport area instead of having to add all those different textured polys everywhere and worrying about the land class problem. It would be a lot less headache, I already have the location of the airport on google earth, so it should be just a matter of creating the scenery and placing it in the location of the airport. At least in doing it that way, I can actually see my work progress in real-time in the sim instead of having to constantly start and stop the sim for every poly I place just to see if I have it placed right or not. Photo scenery would make things a lot easier, now I just have to learn how the heck to make it. On that note, is there any way to take an overlay of my airport and superimpose it over the google earth image so I can see exactly where on the real-world land map everything is and exactly how much land the airport actually covers in the real-world? Or could I just take a "photo" of the location in google earth and place that as a background image under my airport? I just want to figure out where things are in relation to the actual land of the real-world. I'm learning this stuff slowly but shurely, just takes time. BTW: The RPG game is on hold until summer, so I have plenty of time to work on things. Still can't figure out that crazy mountain thing, I just can't seem to get the land to rise up ,I can get to lower, but not rise. I'm actually thinking of just creating some mountain "models" and add flat surfaces to them and do it that way since the land doesn't want to cooperate. Lot less headache a 3D model would be so much easier to work with.

 

[GaryGB]

I would use MCX G-Poly Wizard to import, configure VTP Layer number, assign target Altitude, then export for display in FSX (not FS8, FS9, P3D etc).

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

That don't fix it. It just makes it worse, makes it into nothing but a rectangle and the texture is all messed up. Any other ideas?

 

[GaryGB]

That doesn't fix it. It just makes it worse, makes it into nothing but a rectangle and the texture is all messed up. Any other ideas?

FYI: MCX requires us to edit texture paths under Options and browse / select the actual texture location as a new custom path, if we fail to load the BGL from a local \Scenery sub-folder paired directly adjacent to a \Texture sub-folder containing all mapped textures on that flat 3D model.

If relocating your files into that folder chain and re-importing into MCX still shows missing or distorted textures:

ZIP it... and link it.

My reply then is better informed.

I am on the road again today, and can look at the files later upon my return to "a real computer".

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

That's what I will do.

 

[Tomt478]

I don't want you to fix it for me, just point me in the right direction as to what I am doing wrong or not doing at all that is causing the slope and stretched out textures. I want to be able to fix it myself so I can learn what it is I did to cause it so I don't make the same mistake again later on. Learning is by doing.

 

[GaryGB]

Roger that...

 

[Tomt478]

I loved that movie........."..and don't call me shirley.."

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Tom:

I relocated your PROJECT_TEXP.BGL to a local \Scenery sub-folder paired directly adjacent to a \Texture sub-folder containing all mapped textures (Alien1.bmp and Alien1_lm.bmp). on that flat 3D model.

In MCX:

When I imported PROJECT_TEXP.BGL, it does show the distorted textures you reported above on a few Faces.

If the MCX G-Poly Wizard is used to import PROJECT_TEXP.BGL, it shows identical results.


However, this is easily corrected if the 3D model is exported from MCX as a Collada *.DAE file and imported to Sketchup.

Note: Put all mapped textures into the same folder as the Collada *.DAE 3D model, so Sketchup can find and display them.


In Sketchup:

Import the Collada *.DAE 3D model into Sketchup, and place it onto the "Origin Of Axes" central point of the workspace.

Paint Bucket Tool > hover cursor over a correctly mapped Face

<Alt>+ Left Mouse click

Hover cursor over a directly adjacent incorrectly mapped Face

Left Mouse click onto adjacent incorrectly mapped Face

The adjacent incorrectly mapped Face should now be mapped correctly with an adjacent 'part' of the projected texture image:

Repeat for other Faces with distorted texture mapping (sample a non-distorted Face, then Paint the adjacent distorted Face)

Always re-start sampling from a Face that is correct(-ed), so Sketchup maps a projected texture to adjacent Faces in sequence.


I would have to test the process my self using the SBuilderX VTP Textured Polygon feature to see if a procedural error in mapping the texture might explain the texture distortion that resulted when that object was created.


To display a Mars-like terrain texture on ground in FS scenery, it is best to use custom 'PR' land class textures- not a G-Poly.

You can use a graphics application to modify Satellite / other Aerial Imagery of an Earth 'desert' area to make it look like Mars.

Example: "The Martian" starring Matt Damon was filmed in Jordan; they did "color tint" ground and sky graphically in the film.


You could "color tint" existing imagery for the Uinta Basin near Roosevelt / Fort Duchesne, Utah area for your project.

When processed via SDK Resample to an imagery BGL, it will drape onto 'any' local terrain shape at assigned coordinates.

This weekend, I will try to compile terrain mesh and imagery BGLs for FSX, so you can load them and explore that option.


More on this later (Saturday ?), as time permits.

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

Once I do all of that, do I just save it back as a Colada DAE then import it back into MCX and then export it back to a BGL? Doing the "tint" thing sounds like it might actually be a better way to go than having to do all those steps for EVERY poly I create. See if you can find out if it was an error on my part or if it's something to do with SBX itself that is causing the distortion. If it's something I'm doing then correcting that would be easy, but if it's a "flaw" in SBX, then the later mentioned method would be better. If it's a SBX flaw, there won't be any way to fix that I'm beginning to think it just may be a problem with SBX because the method for creating the GP looks straightforward enough to me, there ain't a whole lot of setting or adjustments involved that I can see.

For the tinting option, bassicly I would just take a sattelite image, import it to Photoshop, give it a good Mars-Like tint, export the file as a colada file (3D model), import that into MCX ,export that as a BGL then put that BGL into my addon/scenery/work folder and FSX should load that up and it should overlay that imagery over my airport at whatever coordinates I place it at. Now will that "block" out my land classes like the G-Poly does or will it act like photo-real scenery and allow everything else to blend through? If that works, then that would be a much easier and less headache way to do things than fooling with this G-Poly texture thing. I pretty much know how to use Photoshop (been using it for years) and know how to do 3D modeling with it, that's how I created all of my custom objects such as my custom people (still wish I could find a way to make those not so "flat"). If you could get me those BGLs to work with, that would give me some ideas as to how to do what I want to do. I never could get the Resample thing to do right, I'll have to study up on using that to resample my images. I always get an error when I try to use it, I always just use MCX to compile images to BGL, no headaches that way.

 

[Tomt478]

PS:Can you assign coordinates using MCX?

 

[Tomt478]

I have a question, why won't sketchup display the textures? They show up as just black. Do I need them to be in any specific format. I see they loaded up in your example, I have them in BMPDXT1 format, do I need to change them to something else for sketchup to read them?

 

[GaryGB]

Once I do all of that, do I just save it back as a Collada *.DAE then import it back into MCX and then export it back to a BGL?

Yes, but Geo-referencing is lost, as PhotoShop and/or MCX export of Collada *.DAE file format does not store Geo-referencing.

After MCX imports the G-Poly, it will initially inherit the SCASM / ASM code's internal Geo-referencing embedded by SBX.

When MCX exports Collada *.DAE, that info is lost.


When imported into Sketchup, you must "place" the 3D model again by Geo-locating it in Sketchup.


If instead you use PhotoShop to directly edit the SCASM G-Poly textures, then export a Collada *.DAE separate from MCX, that info is lost.


However, if MCX G-Poly Wizard is used to export back into a SCASM / ASM G-Poly, one can re-assign Geo-referencing for Lat / Lon / Alt.

Doing the "tint" thing sounds like it might actually be a better way to go than having to do all those steps for EVERY poly I create.

(Please) See if you can find out if it was an error on my part or if it's something to do with SBX itself that is causing the distortion. If it's something I'm doing then correcting that would be easy, but if it's a "flaw" in SBX, then the later mentioned method would be better. If it's a SBX flaw, there won't be any way to fix that I'm beginning to think it just may be a problem with SBX because the method for creating the GP looks straightforward enough to me, there ain't a whole lot of setting or adjustments involved that I can see.

G-Polys can be very useful in specific situations; however, for what your multiple goals are, custom PR imagery land class textures are best.

Using custom PR imagery land class textures allows transparency to create "holes" to enable display of underlying CVX vector content.

Additionally, water will have "Hydro" attributes, and one can annotate default or custom Autogen objects onto the custom textures.

For the tinting option, basically I would just take a satellite image, import it to Photoshop, give it a good Mars-Like tint, export the file as a Collada *.DAE file (3D model)

* Import that into MCX

* Export that 3D model as a BGL from MCX

* Put that BGL into my Addon Scenery\[work version top folder name]\Scenery sub-folder

...and FSX should load that up and it should overlay that imagery over my airport at whatever coordinates I place it at.

Now will that "block" out my land classes like the G-Poly does or will it act like photo-real scenery and allow everything else to blend through?

If that works, then that would be a much easier and less headache way to do things than fooling with this G-Poly texture thing. I pretty much know how to use Photoshop (been using it for years) and know how to do 3D modeling with it, that's how I created all of my custom objects such as my custom people (still wish I could find a way to make those not so "flat").

If you could get me those BGLs to work with, that would give me some ideas as to how to do what I want to do. I never could get the Resample thing to do right, I'll have to study up on using that to resample my images. I always get an error when I try to use it, I always just use MCX to compile images to BGL, no headaches that way.

No, one "Calibrates" imagery and then submits it as (1) or more BMP files along with a *.INF file ...to be compiled via SDK Resample.


A G-Poly might be thought of as a (usually- but not required to be-) 'flat' / level 3D model mapped with your choice of texture image.

G-Polys are not true 'terrain', although one can map images of terrain onto them, that is not an efficient work-flow, however.


Custom PR imagery land class textures are best, in general, and specifically because of the goals you reportedly have for your project.

PS:Can you assign coordinates using MCX?

< New Post by OP added before this reply was posted >

If MCX G-Poly Wizard is used to export back into a SCASM / ASM G-Poly, one can re-assign Geo-referencing for Lat / Lon / Alt.

I have a question, why won't sketchup display the textures? They show up as just black. Do I need them to be in any specific format. I see they loaded up in your example, I have them in BMPDXT1 format, do I need to change them to something else for sketchup to read them?

< New Post by OP added before this reply was posted >

Note: Put all mapped textures into the same folder as the Collada *.DAE 3D model (exported by MCX), so Sketchup can find and display them.

Note that to find / map / display textures:

* MCX looks in both the same folder as the 3D model, and/or a paired \Texture sub-folder when a BGL is in a paired \Scenery folder.

* Sketchup only looks in the same folder as the 3D model


PS: I will be on the road again shortly, and may not be accessible until later today.

Yep, another dreaded "Shop 'Til You Drop" episode with the beloved.

I do wonder if / when I shall ever be able to complete some FSDEV tasks that I planned to do a week or 2 ago.

I must once again strongly encourage you to read the tutorials by Luis Feliz-Tirado, as I previously cited / linked here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/how-do-you-edit-shore-lines.444306/post-927596


Of particular note is: "Make photo-real ground textures".

That document explains how to use SBuilderX to make custom PR imagery land class textures.

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

Ok, I did get the textures working (sketchup won't read DXT formats I had to convert them to regular BMP) , but, I can't seem to get the coordinates to match up. I wrote down the coordinates shown for the original poly, I then used the G-Poly wizard to enter those coordinates, but the poly doesn't show up at those coordinates, they are slightly off plus the alt. is off by about 5m. should I adjust the coordinates in Sketchup instead, maybe MCX isn't precise enough.

 

[GaryGB]

Ok, I did get the textures working (sketchup won't read DXT formats I had to convert them to regular BMP) , but, I can't seem to get the coordinates to match up. I wrote down the coordinates shown for the original poly, I then used the G-Poly wizard to enter those coordinates, but the poly doesn't show up at those coordinates, they are slightly off plus the alt. is off by about 5m. should I adjust the coordinates in Sketchup instead, maybe MCX isn't precise enough.

No, MCX should be more accurate if provided with accurate data; G-Poly Wizard supports multiple decimal place precision for Lat / Lon / Alt.

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

I can't make it work. I did exactly as you outlined above, but all I get is Sketchup just painting over the missaligned area with the texture from the copied area which removes part of the texture, for istance, if I select a aligned area that is red, and I paint over a missaligned area that is yellow, it replaces the yellow with the red, so that option isn't working out. I don't want to change the texture itself, I just want to fix the "stretched areas" to make it look uniform instead of "sloped". Could all of this have something to do with the texture itself? I used DXTBMP to convert the images to Extended 32Bit DXT1 BMP files. Could it be that I am using BMP images and converting them to the required BMPDXT1 format? Should I use maybe a JPG image and convert that instead. It seems to me that when creating the Poly, SBX isn't importing the mapping of the textures correctly or not at all. It just seems to me that SBX shouldn't be making the textures stretch like that. It should be a simple process of creating the poly, there really isn't any special settings for doing it in SBX, Or maybe it's just a "flaw" in SBX that really can't be fixed unless the author of the program supplies us with a "fix". I am probably going to have to resort to photoreal imagery, because the textured poly thing ain't working. Even if I were to get Sketchup to "fix" it, there's still the problem of placement of the poly not working right. I'm really starting to wonder if the entire AD4 project has so many "bugs" in it, that it's simply throwing things off. This is a project I had started years ago way before any of these tools were even available, I just had it stuck away on a HD for years and just recently started working on it again. I didn't know anything about design back then, just how to create the airport and save it, that's all I knew how to do back then. All this terrain editing wasn't even possible then.