P3D v4 GP and custom ground lines

[Gerald Krutsch]

Hi there,

I'm home .

Attached my entire compiled folder. Inside you will see 3 folders: "ADE_GP Textures" (this was created in the project folder), "Scenery" (all BGL) and "texture" (where I copied the same files from ADE_GP Textures" folder).
To your Q:
- Win10 / DX12 (revision?)
- MSI GTX 970 / 384.94 (didn't work with other drivers also)
- "Fake" 4096
- V4 installed on dedicated SSD / FSIM Add-Ons on another dedicated SSD
- W10 was installed clean 1 week ago when I reinstalled P3D v4 (AS THE ONLY SIM ON MY PC!!!)

Regards,
Gerald

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Gerard:

IIUC, you refer to NVidia driver revision 384.94 as your current driver in use ?


Also, you indicate the P3Dv4 MDL-based GPs did not display with that version, or other NVidia driver versions for that graphics card ?


Additionally, you understand that Windows-10 will automatically "switch" the DX sub-system mode to run P3Dv4 in LM's required DirectX-11 mode ?

https://www.prepar3d.com/system-requirements


BTW: Regarding VRAM capacity for your graphics card, what do you mean by: "Fake 4096" ?

http://www.gpureview.com/GeForce-GTX-970-card-687.html


Thanks in advance for your reply to these questions.

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Hi All:

FYI: There is a "anecdotal report" posted earlier this afternoon (Chicago time) of achieving (satisfactory ?) display of MDL-based GPs in P3Dv4 via both ADE v1.70x GP feature and also via use of the MCX version of August 20, 2017 ...here:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...onger-transition-smoothly.441000/#post-780918


As with all computers having different hardware / drivers / Windows, and P3Dv4, "test this for yourselves", and your results may vary.

GaryGB

 

[Gerald Krutsch]

Hi Gary,

below my answers:

IIUC, you refer to NVidia driver revision 384.94 as your current driver in use ?

Yes! This is the latest Microsoft certified driver from nVidia (which came with the new clean W10 install) and is curently in use!
Prior to the clean OS install I had an erlyer version (which ran well with FSX:SE but can't remember the version) and also the latest one 385.41.

Additionally, you understand that Windows-10 will automatically "switch" the DX sub-system mode to run P3Dv4 in LM's required DirectX-11 mode ?

Yes but installing DX12 from MS will pull all other version also due to DX backwards compatibility. Since I currently clean installed my OS, I would say I have the latest DX "revisions" on my system. Also, I have no idea how too look for the DX "revisions". DxDiag only shows the latest supported DX version which is DX12.

BTW: Regarding VRAM capacity for your graphics card, what do you mean by: "Fake 4096" ?

This was one of the biggest scandals in nVidia's history. The 970 cards were (and are) promoted with 4Gb of VRAM but only 3,5Gb are accessed at full speed. The rest of 0,5Gb is used by nVidia to do whathever (can't remember if the buffer something or else...). So if you get in that area, you will get massive performace drop and stutters. Therefore 970 users have to always stay below 3,5Gb -> ergo FAKE 4Gb .

 

[GaryGB]

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/gp-and-custom-ground-lines.440977/page-3#post-780968

Yes but installing DX12 from MS will pull all other version also due to DX backwards compatibility. Since I currently clean installed my OS, I would say I have the latest DX "revisions" on my system. Also, I have no idea how too look for the DX "revisions". DxDiag only shows the latest supported DX version which is DX12.

Hi Gerald:

DxDiag reports the newest maximum DirectX version which Windows is currently able to utilize; internally, however, at run time, when necessary, the OS uses code to operate applications / simulations / games etc. that only support / utilize 'prior' versions of DirectX (ex: FSX / P3Dv1.4x: DirectX-9.0c; P3Dv 2.x / 3.x: DirectX-10 or 11).

That is just an incidental technicality regarding what actually goes on "under the hood", and is not important for most folks to know.

Thanks for the reply regarding the other info posted above; IMHO, we may now conclude that you have a computer system fully DirectX-11 compliant as required by P3Dv4.

https://www.prepar3d.com/system-requirements


So we'll provisionally eliminate any possibility of that playing a contributory role in your ability to display GPs generated via the current "build" of the ADE v1.75x GP feature set.


[EDITED]

Regarding a "work-around" for your LRTR project to get a prompt update out to your end-users of the freeware airport downloadable via ex: AVSIM, you can import the ADE GP BGL file:

[LRTR-Update 2-0 install path]\LRTR-Update 2-0\Scenery\LRTR-Update 2-0_GP.bgl


...into Arno's ModelConverterX (aka "MCX") via the G-Poly Wizard:

1.) MCX Menu > Wizards > Ground Polygon Wizard... < Ground Polygon Wizard dialog opens >

2.) In Ground Polygon Wizard dialog:

a.) Click [...] button to 'Select file to Convert' > browse / select: LRTR-Update 2-0_GP.bgl; click [Open] button

b.) Click [...] button > 'Select output BGL file' > browse / select: LRTR-Update 2-0_GP.bgl


NOTE: Rename LRTR-Update 2-0_GP.bgl ...to ex: LRTR-Update 2-0_GP_MCX.bgl; click [Save] button


c.) 'Check' checkbox: "Project flat polygons on ground using normal tolerance: 0.990"

d.) 'Check' checkbox: "Filter out non-ground polygons"

e.) 'Tick' radio button: "P3D v4"

f.) 'Check' checkbox: "Slice Polygons (100 Meter)"

g.) 'Check' checkbox: "Optimize Reference Point location"

h.) Configure Position as necessary for placement

i.) Configure Texture info as necessary for Seasonal / Night (aka "_LM") display


NOTE: Textures mapped to LRTR-Update 2-0_GP are *.BMP and can be used as is; if *.DDS preferred:

j.) 'Check' checkbox: "Convert Textures"

(1) Click [...] button to 'Select file to Convert' > browse / select:

[LRTR-Update 2-0 install path]\LRTR-Update 2-0\Texture sub-folder name; click [OK]

< To be continued; cannot find a [Convert] button to process via this Wizard in the 12-09-2017 MCX version ! >

"Help me 'Arno-Wan Kenobe' ...you're my only hope !"

[END_EDIT]

GaryGB

 

[arno]

I changed the way coordinates are entered in the GPW recently. But that should not have broken the convert button. I'll check when I'm behind my pc.

 

[GaryGB]

Thanks Arno !

PS: I just checked the 17-08-2017 MCX version of the G-Poly Wizard, and it has [LOD] and [Convert] buttons.

Looks like the dialog got "cut off" in the 12-09-2017 MCX version of the G-Poly Wizard".

GaryGB

 

[robystar]

Sorry, Gary, that is not the correct procedure as far as I am concerned. it has nothing to do with DX 10 or 11 or 12.
You import your ADE_GP.bgl into MCX, merge all the sub .asm based FS9 type mdl's, add FSX material properties and export them as a single P3D mdl.
Then import that one again in MCX using the GPW and assign negative layers to your various GP textures.
Don may have found a shortcut but I cannot find a way to do it right his way (my problem probably).

 

[GaryGB]

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/gp-and-custom-ground-lines.440977/page-3#post-781027

Sorry, Gary, that is not the correct procedure as far as I am concerned. it has nothing to do with DX 10 or 11 or 12.
You import your ADE_GP.bgl into MCX, merge all the sub .asm based FS9 type mdl's, add FSX material properties and export them as a single P3D mdl.
Then import that one again in MCX using the GPW and assign negative layers to your various GP textures.
Don may have found a shortcut but I cannot find a way to do it right his way (my problem probably).

Hi Roby:

Personally, I use ultra high-resolution synthetically-enhanced custom aerial imagery land class, so no G-Polys for me in FSX (...and I do not 'yet' have P3D ...any version, so no need for MDL-based GPs on my MSFS system).


I intended the above 'mini-tutorial' as a very basic "worked example" of MCX work-flow using the "Test GP" that Gerald posted here:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/gp-and-custom-ground-lines.440977/page-3#post-780914


However, I would be quite interested in seeing a more detailed explanation of the work-flow you allude to in your quoted post above !

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Arno:

I just ran the 17-08-2017 MCX version of the G-Poly Wizard over a LAN, and it does have [Define LODs...] and [Convert] buttons.

Am I missing a Windows run time DLL or a config file on the 'other' computer, that the latest development version of MCX requires ?

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Ya' see Gerald: We all learn something from ("civil") discussion threads in the public forums ...EVERYONE !!!

< No, I'm not Gary Oldman either ! >

 

[robystar]

Aren't we off topic???
If we are not then I will add some more comments because what the OP is asking for is why what he did with ADE +its GP editor for FSX-SE is not working in P3Dv4. And that can have a lot of causes.

 

[scruffyduck]

Creeping off topic.......................

 

[GaryGB]

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/gp-and-custom-ground-lines.440977/page-3#post-781033

Aren't we off topic???

If we are not then I will add some more comments because what the OP is asking for is why what he did with ADE +its GP editor for FSX-SE is not working in P3Dv4. And that can have a lot of causes.

Hi Roby:

While it is true that Gerald stated:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/gp-and-custom-ground-lines.440977/

Hello guys,

I decided to split this thread: http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/terrain-flattening-at-lpma-and-gp.440754/

into two separate ones for more clarity.

Here is my problem:

I have opened a small FSX:SE default ARP within ADE (e.g. LRTR) and fixed some of the wrong or missing taxiways using a satellite image created with SBuilderX. I then added some "custom ground lines" and some "custom ground polygons" etc. My work can be found here: https://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fsxscen&DLID=199206.

The entire ARP including all the ground lines and the polygons and also the AI show and work flawlessly in FSX:SE!

Compiling the same project for P3D v4, the ARP is missing some features. All custom ground lines and custom ground polygons are missing. Furthermore, if I open any DEF ARP from P3D v4, add a custom ground line, compile etc. I don't get to see that line.

Now since I did it right for FSX:SE (because I can see them), I have no idea what's wrong in P3D v4. I only use the stuff within ADE (no Sketchup, GMAX, and other voodoo things ).

Could you pls advise me?

Thank you from lake Constance,
Gerald.

...In our original PM on this troubleshooting scenario wherein I insisted that it be discussed in the public forums, I also offered to participate in the subsequent thread I compelled him to start.

I felt it was my ethical responsibility to at least provide an alternate work-flow (READ: work-around) for Gerald to use in order to fulfill his goal of producing a P3Dv4 GP for his end users for the LRTR scenery ASAP.

The importance of doing so became more apparent to me after seeing these statements from Don and Jon regarding the status of the ADEv175x build of the GP feature set:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/gp-and-custom-ground-lines.440977/#post-780643

The problem is a texture issue. The apron texture appears to have priority over the GP textures - which is why it appears that the GPs disappear below the apron regardless of offset. You can see this if you set the GP offset to 1m and disable the ADE scenery .bgl. It happens with both .bmp and .dds textures.

I have no idea what is causing this and have never seen it before.

Jon, I did not have this problem with an earlier version of ADE i.e., prior to 1.75 RC.

Don

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/gp-and-custom-ground-lines.440977/page-2#post-780730

Don
Do you mean the lines as drawn by ADE in the main display or in the Editor. My memory is shaky on this but we did make a change post ADE 1.71 to support the different way that P3D generates custom ground polys. I thought that was for v3. There were very few changes made in ADE 1.75 to support v4 other than providing the folders etc and option to work with v4. There was a change in the decompiler to deal with the MaterialSets for taxi links and runways.

Not sure what you mean by database - if you mean the project file then it effectively unchanged. There is a small change to the file structure to provide hooks for the MaterialSet property I mention above but that is not being compiled at the moment.

I am also trying to get a handle on versions. The recent/current ones:

• ADE 1.71 which was the production version until recently
• ADE 1.7 Beta which does not support P3D v4 but which did have changes to support your revised GP complining
• ADE 1.75 RC1 - the pre production version supporting P3D v4 and
• ADE 1.75 which is the current production version and effectively the same as RC1

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/gp-and-custom-ground-lines.440977/page-2#post-780738

Thanks, Gary, but I don't see how that thread relates to the GP display issue.

Gerald, by ADE "scenery" file I am referring to the file containing the airport itself (which may or may not scenery objects). There's nothing more you need do at the moment.

Jon, I mean the lines on the main ADE display. Other than the extra-wide lines, all aspects of ADE seem OK.

I am using 1.75.6400 RC. Gerald is using the current production version. We're both experiencing the same symptoms - with his file.

For what it's worth, I normally maintain my airports using the FSX mode of ADE and adjust for the specific flightsim version using custom software. (Of course, that means I can't use P3D features, but there's nothing introduced in P3D that I've found I need for my airports.) But, this morning, I compiled my CYYJ with the PV4 version of ADE and still did not have any issues.

By "database", I guess I mean the ADE project file. I doubt the issue has anything to do with the change to allow ADE-GP to compile for PV4.

As I said earlier, since no one else is complaining and I can't duplicate the issue except with Geralds .ad4 file, I suspect the problem lies in his file and that the extra-wide GP lines are a clue. Perhaps his file has somehow been damaged other than in the transition from FSX to PV4 but in a way that ADE doesn't currently recognize.

One final issue that I doubt has anything to do with disappearing GP lines but should be noted. When compiling both Gerald's file and mine with the .ad4 file located outside the ADE project folder, at the completion of the compile, ADE issues an error message to the effect it can't find the .xml file in the PV4 project folder. Nonetheless, the compile completes and all the generated files are in the user-specified destination folder. There seems to be an assumption that the PV4 project folder is always used.

Hope this helps.

Don

I'm still waiting to see what may- or may not- be done on Gerald's behalf via Don and/or Jon with his *.AD4 file.

At this juncture, AFAIK Don was working on Terrain Sculptor Pro, and preparing to be away for an extended period of time, but we have seen no reply from Jon thus far regarding this troubleshooting scenario.

Perhaps there is one or more pertinent PM discussions taking place with-or without- Gerald's participation ?


Regardless, I have made my offer of assistance with a 'work-around' here on behalf of Gerald, his end users, and others who may wish to use his scenery in P3Dv4.

And I'd still welcome seeing your work-flow for making G-Polys either here ...or elsewhere in the forums.


PS: Probably elsewhere, as we wouldn't want to burden Gerald with having to do any "voodoo".

GaryGB

 

[arno]

Thanks Arno !

PS: I just checked the 17-08-2017 MCX version of the G-Poly Wizard, and it has [LOD] and [Convert] buttons.

Looks like the dialog got "cut off" in the 12-09-2017 MCX version of the G-Poly Wizard".

GaryGB

The form got larger, what screen resolution are you using?

 

[GaryGB]

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/gp-and-custom-ground-lines.440977/page-3#post-781058

The form got larger, what screen resolution are you using?

Hi Arno:

1366 x 768; there is no scaling of screen fonts configured in Windows.

GaryGB

 

[arno]

Hi Arno:

1366 x 768; there is no scaling of screen fonts in Windows configured.

GaryGB

The form is 616 pixels in height, so that should fit. I just checked here, but I see all the buttons. Maybe double check if you haven't resized the form and by accident moved them of screen? Else show a screenshot of what you see.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Arno:

Screenshot attached is from the computer with a MCX 12-09-2017 G-Poly Wizard display issue.

Windows-7 64-Bit Display settings for screen fonts is: "Smaller - 100% (default)" non-scaled

GaryGB

 

[arno]

Just grab the bottom of the form and pull it down to make the form bigger. I'm sure the buttons will appear then.

I don't understand yet why your default size is incorrect, I need to check the code for that.

 

[gadgets]

Just to try and get this thread back on topic, as I reported above, the problem appears to be related to Gerald's .ad4 file. It does not affect any of my (6) airports nor has anyone else (to my knowledge) reported such symptoms. Consequently, while the underlying problem may reside in the sim or the compiler, the trigger is unlikely to be anything other than an idiosyncrasy in the .ad4 file and/or ADE's processing of it. And, the problem is unlikely to be hardware-related.

As for what Don and Jon are doing to help Gerald, Don has done all he is able to do (for the moment) and, I'm sure, Jon is investigating. Perhaps he should be given a chance to complete that investigation.

Roby (and anyone else who thinks ADE-GPs output must be submitted to MCX prior to going to the sim), ADE generates fully-PV4-compliant ground polys including the Z-bias offset. You don't have to add the z-bias manually; check the MAT3 blocks in the _GP.bgl files and you'll see it's already there.

And, before somebody else goes off on a tangent, PV3/4 GPs can use .bmp textures. (I appreciate .dds textures are a little more efficient in FSX/P3D.) The base GP textures supplied with ADE are in .bmp (DXT1/3) fomat.. Anyone who wants .dds files can convert those base textures. ADE-GP gives priority to .dds textures when compiling for FSX/P3D.

Don