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FSX Making a landable mountain using ADE for FSX

Indeed I'll show you the process to follow in Sketchup, MCX, SBuilderX, and ADE to do sloped CVX vector flattens.


As for converting user aircraft or ground vehicles to AI, if the model complexity is not too high, it 'may' work, but I'd have to research that.

Normally those are much lower complexity 3D MDLs for Freeway Traffic.

AFAIK, the conversion process is best done with SAMM by Don Grovestine and MCX, both downloadable here at FSDEV..

GaryGB
 
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I'll look into that. It was just a thought to have some of my Vehicles that I actualy use going down the highways.
 
Hey, I was just doing some editing on my roads trying to remove some vegetation off the roads, and I suddenly realized my FLATTEN background was missing from the airport. I never noticed it before until now. I may have sent you a corrupted AD4 file. I'm going to check things over, I restored to the AD4 file I had made a copy of on a flash drive (That is exactly why I do that) and I will make sure everything is good before I send it to you. It doesn't have the traffic vectors on it. It's the original (first) AD4 file I sent you before I started working on the traffic thing. I think what happened is when I attempted to upgrade to the later version, things got screwed up as I was having all sorts of problems with the upgrade from memory errors to file load errors. I immediately went back to my original version without the upgrade, and I think that is where my AD4 file got corrupted. That's why I don't like updates. Things can get really messed up if you don't watch it. In other words....back-up ,back-up of backup, then again back-of-backup of backup. You can never have too many backups.
 
Go ahead and use the original AD4 file I first sent you, it's the same as the one I have loaded now, the second one may not be any good. Any work I do on things won't be in the area you're working on, I'm just removing some pesky trees and vegetation from some of the roads before I add in the Road Vectors later on. Anything I do shouldn't affect any work you are doing since none of it is near where you are working. I won't be changing any vertices or vectors, just removing vegetation from roads. Only thing I will probably do is just add some Autogen exclusions under the affected roads.
 
Hi Tom:

OK, I shall resume working with a Sketchup project that had imported all the CVX vector SHP files derived from the original compiled *.AD4.

GaryGB
 
That's probably best. It's going to take some time for me to fix the vegetation thing. Somehow a lot of my autogen exclusions quit working properly, so I have to delete them and put in new ones. Is there a simpler way yo remove trees and vegetation from roads? It's a pain in the you know what to have to go in and draw exclusion polys under every road and hope it works. If I have to use SBX or sketchup, that's fine.
 
Indeed, the correct choice is "exclusion polygons":

ADE: Green "Terrain Polygon" icon on Toolbar > Airport Background > Properties: MaskClassMap / Flatten / Exclude Autogen

SBuilderX: Toolbar > Polygon > Airport Background > Properties: MaskClassMap / Flatten / Exclude Autogen

... and NOT Exclusion 'Rectangles'


NOTE: In SBuilderX, you can select and copy CVX vector objects, paste them in place, then re-assign Properties of the 'copied' objects.

So, you could duplicate Roads, edit Properties for the copies, and change their Properties to:

Airport Background - MaskClassMap / Flatten / Exclude Autogen

Also, in SBuilderX, Lines can be drawn, then converted to Polygons. :idea:

GaryGB
 
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Ok, thanks, I was just wondering if there was some easier way to do it. It's just so time consuming to have to draw a lot of polys. I can't seem to figure out why the exclusions randomly quit working and the trees start popping up again, then I have to delete the exclusion poly and replace it again. This seems to happen randomly. Could it be caused by having to recompile the airport several times. Should I start deleting the old compiled files from my addon scenery folder then compile?
 
Hi again:

We must bear in mind there is an important distinction between Exclusion Rectangles and Exclusion Polygons in FS2Kx versions.

Each distinct Exclusion Rectangle / Exclusion Polygon object is coded to prevent display of unwanted objects based on GUID.


Assuming all CVX vector ESRI SHP files are Appended in SBuilderx if ediiting / compiling: newer CVX BGLs should replace older BGLs.

One should remove / overwrite all older CVX vector BGLs with new ones compiled from SBuilderX after any edit ...to any object.


I recommend using the above described method of copying existing Road polygon objects, pasting in place, and changing their GUID.


A way to make that process easier, with reduced risk for errors is: use colors SBuilderX associates with object type GUIDs.

Then edit those colors so that they will be semi-transparent; this allows seeing overlapped objects above and below.


If working extensively with CVX vectors while correlating with ADE as a standard, IMHO it is best to match SBuilderX colors for
Appended CVX vector objects so that they are identical to those displayed by default in ADE.


If working extensively with CVX vectors using FSX / P3D SDK TMFViewer as a standard, IMHO it is best to match SBuilderX colors for Appended CVX vector objects so that they are identical to those displayed by default in FSX / P3D SDK TMFViewer.


Again, I encourage you to review these (2) threads on the Append process I use with SBuilderX and CVX vector import:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/sbuilderx-ft-or-m.437055/

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...-vector-objects-in-sbuilderx-for-katl.444877/


When editing, we should not retain overlapped CVX vector objects of the same type / GUID, as they may 'cancel' each other out.


FS2Kx rendering engine routines assume they will be processing certain scenery content in scaled "chunk" sizes to stay efficient.

For terrain scenery content, this requires precise "clipping" of objects into LOD / QMID 'quads' in a Terrain Mesh File (TMF) grid.


AFAIK, in SBuilderX, slicing of objects at TMF quad grid borders to comply with "clip" criteria to work with the FSX / P3D rendering engine, is now performed by SDK SHP2VEC CVX compiler AUTOMATICALLY.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/cvx-vector-lines-utility-pylons.434880/post-719621


ADE allows design of objects that overlap, with no manual 'clipping' into LODs / QMIDs of a Terrain Mesh File (TMF) quad grid.

IIUC, ADE achieves this via 'drawing layers, that may only work with 'airport' type objects compiled by BGLComp criteria.


Thus, IIRC, Aprons, custom ADE-GPs, or other custom 2D / 3D objects which are NOT 'terrain' type objects, may use "VTP" layering.

AFAIK, the object types cited immediately above, do not require clipping' into LODs / QMIDs of a Terrain Mesh File (TMF) quad grid.


So, I doubt ADE internally performs pre-compile slicing of those object types at TMF quad grid borders to comply with "clip" criteria.


As I don't know if ADE internally performs pre-compile slicing of airport object types at TMF quad grid borders to comply with "clip" criteria, I would need an explanation from Jon of whether / how ADE slices airport object types at TMF quad grid borders.

Or if Jon is in winter hibernation in sunny Florida right now, we may not see him until spring < ...just a friendly tease, Jon ! :wave: >.


UPDATE: SDK SHP2VEC CVX vector compiler automatically "clips" content to TMF quad grid sizes

* Freeway Traffic is 'clipped' to LOD-13 / QMID-15 TMF quad grid borders.

* All other CVX vectors are 'clipped' to LOD-9 / QMID-11 TMF quad grid borders.


'Airport' type objects processed via BGLComp criteria may not 'clip' to TMF quad grid borders, but instead via Airport "Test Radius".

You may recall I recommended that, due to the unusual size of your airport project, you should set your "Test Radius" at 99,000.

While this may resolve some issues with run time display in FSX, the sheer size of your extent on the ground requires that one constantly zoom in and out of QMID-11 quad levels of CVX vector terrain object to see them end-to-end in ADE and SBuilderX.

I am tempted to suggest it would be better to limit your "airport" test radius by not using Apron or Taxway path objects which must be used within an airport text radius extent of a BGLComp "airport" BGL, in contrast to a terrain scenery type of BGL.

One may assume it is required to create flat ground in a flat / level airport configuration by using Taxiway paths, they can only be used in an airport type of BGL.

One might consider instead using CVX vector flattens / Roads / Polygons to limit the airport test radius.


Flat / level / sloped areas can still be made via CVX vector Polygons without using 'airport type' objects.

That would also make it possible to create more interesting multi-level scenery on terrain with variable elevation / shape.

Note also that Freeway traffic will work on vertical cliffs when uneven terrain is crossed by Freeway traffic CVX vectors. :idea:


Basically, only AI Traffic / Ground Vehicles require Flat / level airport surfaces and an airport object infrastructure.


Even RWYs now can be made sloped while using terrain mesh-clinging textures of CVX vector or custom photoreal types.


You might do well to review all the linked content in this thread: :pushpin:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/steep-sided-islands.445660/post-825526



If you have any difficulty viewing the full content of SBuilderX' CHM Help file in SBX315\Help sub-folder, let me know.


ADE version 1.65 PDF Manual was linked previously from this post above:

"The older (version 1.65)- but still very useful- PDF Manual for ADE is here:"

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/ade-version-1-65-english-manual-released.433288/

http://www.mediafire.com/download/8rp6jr7en9xwdls


GaryGB
 
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Hi Tom:

In spite of good intentions, as this week has presented numerous impromptu digressions of my anticipated action plan, I shall require more time to generate a "Test Of Concept" sloped flatten and associated tutorials for Sketchup / ADE / SBuilderX workflows.

A soon as I can get at least the initial run time demo in a CVX vector BGL as a stand-alone file, I shall link it here first.

Then I shall follow with the requested tutorials for Sketchup / ADE / SBuilderX.

GaryGB
 
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Tomt478 said:
That's Fine, The game has gone into a new scenario anyway. This one may take a while to complete.
Click to expand...

Are you referring to MSFS, or some aspect of your activities as a "DM" that generates 'game' activities ?

If you are referring to MSFS, be aware that there may be a way to 'port' this current FSX scenery into MSFS 2020 and/or 2024.

While your current computer does have some hardware limitations, it may actually be able to load and run MSFS, even if you needed to reduce scenery rendering complexity settings in the graphics settings menu. 😉

Many in the FS Community may not realize how dramatically improved the performance of the MSFS rendering engine is compared to FSX and/or P3D.

GaryGB
 
Hi Tom:

While creating a test-of-concept CVX vector sloped flatten "Hill" on the "island', I see numerous overlapped objects / gaps.

In order to generate an initial run time demo in a CVX vector BGL as a stand-alone file, I must disconnect the entire 'island'.

There are a vast number of other imprecise alignments involving overlapped CVX vector objects in the example KWR1 file set.


There are several reasons for this that 'may' apply, including:

* Extremely large extent of Geographic coverage exceeding mapping precision of the EPSG:4326 cartographic projection

* Extremely large extent of Geographic coverage exceeding map coordinate precision of the graphics engine in ADE / SBuilderX

* Drawing freehand without zooming in enough to ensure CVX vector objects do not overlap onto adjacent vector objects

* Drawing freehand without zooming in so as to ensure CVX vector objects 'align' only at vertices with adjacent vector objects


NOTE: Sketchup has 1/1,000 inch precision, which AFAIK may be much higher than that of both ADE and SBuilderX; however, seeing some zoomed objects vertices to avoid overlaps / ensure alignment is possible only by changing Camera focal length.

Whereas Sketchup default Camera focal length is ~50mm, some zoomed object vertex display requires 2,500mm focal length.

That option can be used not only during initial drawing ("sketching") for content generation, but also to fix Edge misalignment.


I can only allocate time to fix CVX vector object Edge misalignment in the immediate vicinity of the 'island' to make a demo.

The remainder of the project revision I must leave up to your evolving skills, which we may already have enhanced via Q&A.


Based on what I tinkered with this morning, Sketchup seems to be the best way to make sloped flattens and fix CVX vectors.

ADE and SBuilderX are the best way to create 'other' new CVX vectors provided one zooms in adequately for vertex alignment.


It will be important to "fix" this scenery entirely ...before considering a release to the public.

If FSX has "A.I.", at run time it is under 'stress' when this loads, and may show graphical anomalies and perhaps even crash.


The important take-away here, is the learning process; new insights gained may prove helpful with future FS projects. :)

More on this soon, as time permits. :coffee:

GaryGB
 
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I'm refering to my ongoing RPG that I'm currently running. I use the SIM to move players around in real-time by live streaming. A bit slow, but works ok. I use the "Discord" website which is designed specifically for gaming and the streaming function on there has improved quite a bit. As for the misaligned vectors, I am aware of them, those were put in using ADE "before" I knew how to use sketchup or SBuiler. I meant to go in and fix all of those. If you have to disconnect the island ,that's fine. I can touch things up once I have some sort of prototype to work with. I'm learning more and more about using Sketchup and SBuilder. I just need some sort of prototype to start with.
 
Hi Tom:

While fixing CVX vector object Edge misalignment in the immediate vicinity of the 'island' to make a demo, I was attempting to achieve more precise positioning relative to all imported CVX vector content, and remembered that you had used ADE XML-based "airport-type" objects for Roads as Taxiway Paths.

CVX vector BGL content imported thus far from ADE does not contain XML "airport-type" objects for Roads as Taxiway Paths.

Since existing Taxiway Paths "Road" content would also be important to visualize, and potentially edit within Sketchup and SBuilderX, I explored some additional options in ADE for export of XML "airport-type" Taxiway Points as *.CSV files.

With some further Geographic coordinate data field re-positioning in a spreadsheet, I was able to import Taxiway Points in to a GIS application, and auto-connect the Taxiway Points to make Taxiway Path Lines.

After export as a vector ESRI *.SHP file, I was able to import Taxiway Path Lines into Sketchup.

I believe this may prove helpful to simplifying the fixing and restructuring of this test project to use CVX vectors for Roads instead of XML "airport-type" Taxiway Paths.

That might make it easier to work with planned scenery design and editing, since using quad-'clipped' CVX vectors as Roads may not impact FSX rendering stability and visibility as severely as BGLComp XML airport Taxiway Path code over vast distances.

I will test this a bit further incidental to getting a "fixed" set of scenery objects aligned to allow a proper sloped flatten demo. :)


The potential yield from this extra testing may be, you can more easily edit your project in Sketchup before export to SBuilderX.

In SBuilderX, CVX vector attributes can be assigned to new content Appended from a ESRI *.SHP file exported by Sketchup.

SBuilderX may then be able to compile both existing and new CVX vector objects into (1) or (2) updated project BGLs. :idea:

GaryGB
 
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Ok, I wonder if that's the reason when I import my .SHP files into SBUILDER, the roads don't show up. If it works, please let me know how you fixed that. It would sure be easier to edit things if my roads actually showed up in SBuilder. All I have been able to do is create my road vectors in ADE, then just import the Road Vectors .SHP file which shows the lines, convert those lines to Traffic Vectors, then compile only that .SHP file into a BGL, import that .BGL into the ...addon/scenery folder. It works, but the traffic alignment is always off no matter how I position the road vectors in ADE. If I could see the actual roads in SBuilder, then I could touch up my alignments a lot better. But so far I have no idea how the heck to get the roads to show up.
 
I need to ask something, I keep seeing you talk about CVX vectors, exactly what are those? I'm still learning about vectors here, not completely familiar with all these abreviations and terminologies. How do I see or recognize CVX Vectors in ADE or SBuilder? Also, how do I go about importing my airport into Sketchup? I'd like to take a look at things in more detail and get a look at things as they would be laid out over the actual Earth location on Google Earth. I want to build some smaller airports around this "main land" ,but I'd need to be able to see where things are on Google Earth. I want to use a background immage of the area for more precise placement of the smaller airports, and I want to see if there are any "real-world" airports anywhere in the vicinity that I could actually use as a sort of "base" location to fly passengers to and from using both FSpassenger and FSXPilot. I've been looking around the area using the map in FSX, but I found that to be quite unreliable, I think a lot of the GPS data that was used to create the map when FSX was released, is no longer valid so GPS coordinates don't match up too well with real-world locations. I think this is why when I created this airport, it wound up inside a volcano, because I used the FSX map to position the airport, I didn't know how to use all these other tools when this airport was created, it was a project I started a long time ago and just put it asside when I took a break from simming until I got a better computer that would run the sim better. I am now just finishing up that project I started back then. With your help (and you have really been a great help, thanks so much), I am actually able to do that now.
 
Oh, I have gone in and re-aligned some of the land and shoreline vertices, I also widened some of the roads where I placed traffic vectors to give me more space to "drive" my vehicles without traffic running into me all the time. I noticed a lot of the land class vertices were overlapping, so I zoomed in and fixed a lot of them. Do you need or would you like me to upload the updated AD4 files with these correction. There may still be more overlapped vertices in the airport that I just haven't gotten to yet. I got a bit tired and fatigued doing them so I took a break and went to bed, I plan on doing some more work on them. Most of these are not in the island area.
 
Hi again:

Yes, it would be helpful to have access to the latter edits you made to the project by posting a link to the *.AD4 file.


BTW: In addition to extracting CVX vector and certain other airport type XML, Sketchup can import a basic "airport" layout:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/one-click-hangar.424466/

(See: "AFCAD" Ruby plugin feature)


'CVX Vector' describes poly-line and polygon objects drawn in ADE / SBuilderX etc., are compiled to BGL by SDK SHP2VEC.

Vectors are terrain type objects (including 'land class textured objects' distinguished from other XML airport type objects


XML airport type objects are compiled by SDK BGLComp.


Terrain quad mesh, custom photoreal aerial imagery, and several other special types of scenery are compiled by SDK Resample.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/p...dn.10)?redirectedfrom=MSDN#the-terrain-system

https://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv5/sdk/world/terrain/terrain_overview.html#The Terrain System


Your original KWR1 location was unchanged from where you placed it; I had posted a KMZ for a proposed alternate location.


CVX vector *.SHP files can be appended to SBuilderX after extracted with Patrick Germain's CvxExtractor from CVX vector BGLs:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/cvxextractor-exporting-vector-data.432918/


CVX vector *.SHP files can be appended to Sketchup using Tools4Sketchup (aka "TS4SU") plugin.

I can post some info about that sophisticated and precise plugin, as well as how to install and use it ...sometime later.


NOTE: MS-Edge may work better for these web pages:

https://t4su.wordpress.com/

https://t4su.wordpress.com/2016/07/11/how-to-test-it/

https://sourcesup.renater.fr/frs/?group_id=684

https://sourcesup.renater.fr/frs/download.php/latestfile/759/t4su_20200709.rbe



Sketchup is very useful working with vectors, as it has "Inferences" and "Snap-To" features to assist with positioning / alignment.


https://www.youtube.com/user/aidanchopra

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Sketchup+Inferences


Yep, a lot of learning in a short period of time ...calls for 'pacing oneself'.


More to come later, as time (and energy) permits. :)

GaryGB
 
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I'll take a look at some of this stuff as time permits. I want to look at making those smaller airports (nothing fancy, just a simple runway with a couple of hangers and one small terminal) around the main land airport KWR1. I plan on at least 3 other smaller airports around KWR1. They won't be anything fancy, just the airport and a couple of small towns. I just have to figure out where to place them in relation to KWR1.
 
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