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suggestions?

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Mace said:
Q: Why does ADE create these exclusions automatically? Is there some advantage to doing this?
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Yes, it means that your average user (even the beginner) can manipulate all the buildings on an airport without even having to worry about learning the ins and outs of exclusions. They are irrelevant to the developer - the result is what is important.

S: Allow the user the option of disabling this automatic creation, or at least the ability to see and delete these items in the GUI.
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The items are all deletable and / or movable in the GUI already. You don't have to do anything differently from what you are doing when you move or delete any other artefact in the airport. YMML has a nasty shimmer in the roof of the international terminal. I found that there were four buildings buried inside the terminal, doing absolutely nothing, and with ADE it was the work of seconds to get rid of them, by just deleting them.

As it is right now, I'd have to decom it and take it out manually...unless there is some view item I'm missing.
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Nope, just set the scenery complexity (up the top) to the right level, and all the constructs on the airport will be there for you to do with as you wish. You don't have to fiddle with anything manually to do that. I like it.

I have had many occasions where I kept some of the stock GenericBuildings. I've also had situations where I kept some of the other objects (like triggers).
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Ah, I see where you are coming from. You haven't understood how the excludes work in practice. They don't exclude ANYTHING until you have selected the objects to exclude. If you exclude one or more objects, they will no longer appear, but all the other stock objects will still be there for you. No muss, no fuss.

I can see where some users may get confused about having stock items in place. Perhaps this was the reason for the design choice to have ADE create these automatically?
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I don't understand that comment - sorry. I'm not a scenery expert by any stretch of the imagination - I don't even know the technical details of how the ADE exclusion works. I don't need to - because I know that it works. Nothing confusing. It just allows me to treat those stock buildings just like any other buildings. Easy when you know how.
 
I guess the approach ADE is using is to exclude all objects, and then replace them all in the same place. so if you don't do anything with objects, the cost is whatever overhead FSX has in excluding the objects from the default files and placing them once again from the ADE files. that cost I suspect is very small.

That way, you can delete or move any objects, and not have to remember to first exclude them from the default.

scott s.
.
 
YMML has a nasty shimmer in the roof of the international terminal. I found that there were four buildings buried inside the terminal, doing absolutely nothing, and with ADE it was the work of seconds to get rid of them, by just deleting them.
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Rhett

The above Statement by JohnG is the norm not the exception. In FS9 many many Terminals are nothing more then library models placed together like a puzzle. You can take the KMIA in FS9 and seperate every single wing of the main Terminal. My full version of FS9 KATL uses 3 different parts of the Main KMIA Terminal to create the new Commuter Terminal on the South Side.

Now comes FSX and the entire main Terminal for many airports is now a single library model that was created by a scenery artist. The problem is that many parts of a FS9 terminal are still in place and the new library model FSX Terminal covers up the old FS9 buldings. This is not just related to Terminals. Open a Stock KMSP. Go over to the new modeled Control tower which is a cluster of new Buildings including a modeled Fire Station. Now look closely at those cluster of Tower buildings. Embedded in the modeled Fire Station is another fire station left over from FS9. Is that a mistake on ACES part? Sure it is but we know how to use a simple delete key to rid the airport of left over single FS9 objects that are now embedded in FSX.

We use exclusions for many reasons including deleting all those left over FS9 buildings hidden inside the new style modeled FSX building. ADE exclusions are by design and not by accident. ADE uses them not only as per the SDK but to fix what is wrong with the FSX airport to begin with. YMML and KMSP is just 2 examples out of many where FS9 buildings are covered up by FSX new style modeled buildings. Now factor in all those hidden buildings vs an increase on FPS. How do you know that KSTL might have embedded FS9 buildings. Manually placing excludes would never find and fix that problem. ADE will show the building for you and delete it.

You ask Jon the following

Let me get this straight in my mind. You are saying that ADE generates its own ExclusionRectangles. You are NOT referring the the <DeleteAirport> command are you? We're talking ExclusionRectangles here, yes?
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That statement really shows us why we design ADE toward a automated code behavior. We take the guess work and the fallacies that so many airport desgners work with which are not true.

We have been discussing ExclusionRectangles. How does that relate to a DeleteAll=command. The Exclusion Rectangle has nothing to do with a airport and they belong to the world scenery database. If we are talking about the exclusion then why would you assume we might really mean a DeleteAll=command. Those 2 types of Elements/attributes don't even belong in the same sentence.

The deleteAll=command DOES NOT exclude anything nor does it delete anything or use any type exclusion. The problem is when many use a TRUE or FALSE in the deleteAll they do not have a clue of what it actually did.

Further up in this thread I listed (#64) how some who designed airports before there was a ADE could make their airport ADE compatible. It would take about 5 minutes to convert your KSTL to ADE. Is that your objective? If so then we can help do that for you. Just attach your master XML.


There are many parts of the SDK that does not explain the 'How to's' but only explain what to do (approach code, closing a runway, etc.). ADE is the same way. Here is what you do and not how we did it once it is passed on to the .dll.
 
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scott967 said:
I guess the approach ADE is using is to exclude all objects, and then replace them all in the same place.
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Personally I have no idea how it is done, and am only concerned that it works. If it allows me, for instance, to remove airport elements that are contributing to load but not adding to the actual effect (in fact, doing the opposite), then I am happy.

so if you don't do anything with objects, the cost is whatever overhead FSX has in excluding the objects from the default files and placing them once again from the ADE files. that cost I suspect is very small.
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I suspect so, too, because I have seen absolutely no degradation with the ADE airport that I'm working on, despote having made a LOT of changes.

That way, you can delete or move any objects, and not have to remember to first exclude them from the default.
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It is without a doubt a very easy tool to use, feature rich, and getting better with each release.
 
scruffyduck said:
Sorry but I am still lost as to what you want to do that this approach is stopping or making more difficult
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Now, absolutely nothing. Thank you for the explanation.

I was under the impression that ADE was not what-you-see-is-what-you-get. I got this impression from what I saw with my loading of my modified MHTG directly from xml, rather than loading the stock airport first and then modifying. Naturally, when one is loading stock data and then modifying (probably the way most users will use the app) then everything is taken care of.

One thing would be good to see--and correct me if this is there and I am missing it--is a toggle-able graphical display of the ExclusionRectangles, and their properties.
 
Mace said:
One thing would be good to see--and correct me if this is there and I am missing it--is a toggle-able graphical display of the ExclusionRectangles, and their properties.
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There is no reason to display the exclusion rectangles, their presence is indicated by the display of scenery objects. If you are so concerned, edit the .xml and remove them.

George
 
scott967 said:
I guess the approach ADE is using is to exclude all objects, and then replace them all in the same place. so if you don't do anything with objects, the cost is whatever overhead FSX has in excluding the objects from the default files and placing them once again from the ADE files. that cost I suspect is very small.

That way, you can delete or move any objects, and not have to remember to first exclude them from the default.

scott s.
.
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Scott

Thank you! This is the answer I was looking for. That does appear to be what ADE is doing. That is all I needed to know.
 
Would it be possible to add a "Compile Airport" icon in the top toolbar? This would be much easier than having to click File/Compile Airport everytime. By the way, I have become a big supporter of ADE. Great program.:)
 
hawkeye53 said:
Would it be possible to add a "Compile Airport" icon in the top toolbar? This would be much easier than having to click File/Compile Airport everytime. By the way, I have become a big supporter of ADE. Great program.:)
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Thanks for the kind words about ADE and the suggestion. If we can find space on the toolbar we will see what we can do ;)
 
Mace said:
Yes, something like that. This "temporary" manual is quite well done, good job on it! It has a few sections in it that answered a lot of questions I had about what ADE is doing.
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On the list :)
 
New? suggestion

Hi,
I'm currently trying to do at least one WW2 airfield with a lot of 'Frying Pan' dispersals i.e. circular pans with a link to the taxiway. Would it be possible to have a default shape selection for aprons eg. round, square etc.? Secondly, would it also be possible to have a rotation facility for apron (such as with the parking spots) so that I can create an apron and then copy & paste it to other locations and then rotate it to align with the appropriate taxiway. Also, is it possible to preview the night-lighting in ADE without compiling and opening the airfield in FSX?
Otherwise I'm enjoying the experience of airfield creation and have found that, for me anyway, ADE is better than FSX planner! Keep up the good work.:D
 
Would it be possible to have a default shape selection for aprons eg. round, square etc.?
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This is on the development list for a future version

Secondly, would it also be possible to have a rotation facility for apron (such as with the parking spots) so that I can create an apron and then copy & paste it to other locations and then rotate it to align with the appropriate taxiway.
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Hmmmm interesting idea - I would need to look at that since currently there is no heading information stored in an apron

Also, is it possible to preview the night-lighting in ADE without compiling and opening the airfield in FSX?
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This is on the development list for a future version

Otherwise I'm enjoying the experience of airfield creation
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It is nice to know that users are finding the program helpful and useful :)
 
Hi Jon,
Not far indeed, and perhaps after doing the one or two airfields I'm planning to do at the moment, I might try to create Boscombe Down (where I work).
 
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