FSX Making a landable mountain using ADE for FSX

[GaryGB]

Do you know what program designers of aircraft or vehicles for FSX use to create or edit aircraft? I would like to add a "driver" in the driver seat of my two Lexus430 vehcles. They have a "passenger in the back seat, but I want to have my RPG players sitting in the front passenger seat (view of course) and the back driver side seat, but have a "driver" that I choose to be sitting in the driver seat, they don't have to be animated, but at least have them sitting in the seat while the car is in use and traveling from place to place. It seems kinda strange to have a car traveling with no driver. Guess I could just make it "magical" or something in the game since we do use a lot of "magic" in our world. I just thought it would be nice to have a "driver". I would also like to learn to make custom vehicles such as a horse drawn carriage, or one I really would like to have is a person walking (realistically) or riding a horse even. I've seen all sorts of things created, so I know it can be done, I want to get into making custom "crafts" for FSX but don't know what software I need (Payware or Freeware).

You may wish to check out the excellent Chevrolet Suburban Ground Vehicle by Christian Bahr et al (including some of the most knowledgeable developers for user aircraft and ground vehicle physics in the FS Community):

http://www.bahrometrix.de/downloads/chevrolet-suburban/

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

I actually have this model, but, I can't get it to work correctly using my joystick, it's a bit hard to control the throttle using a joystick, I don't have a set of pedals yet, I do plan on getting some though. I tried all of the different CFG settings but none of them worked for me, nothing allows me to use the throttle axis control on my joystick, I can get it to work (just) using one of the buttons on the stick to adjust thottle, but it's very picky, and controlling with my autopilot program, that's a whole other ball game. I do use FSXPilot a lot to do some of the long distance travels, works with most of my ground vehicles, but won't work with this one because of the controller problem. Steering works, but auto acceleration don't because it has to use the throttle axis to work. That's another reason I want to learn to modify freeware vehicles, so I can make some of the ones I have that don't work, actually work. I have some neat "fast" cars i would love to use, but they have various problems, including handling problems that I don't know how to fix.

 

[Tomt478]

Generally speaking, modern computers from nearly all manufacturers have quality BIOS chipsets and well-vetted BIOS code.

Flashing the BIOS always compels one to write out a backup of the current installed BIOS version to disk before an "upgrade".

That way, if there is a mishap, one can simply restore the current BIOS code from an external backup.


I have not read of a 'bricked' Mobo in many decades; Routers, yes; but Mobos, no, as they are manufactured to be fool proof.


Most modern BIOS chips actually keep a copy of the current BIOS code in a hidden backup partition within the BIOS chipset.

But it is prudent to first write out a backup of the current installed BIOS version to disk before an "upgrade" flash is attempted.

In the past we had to do this from a DOS boot working with diskettes to launch BIOS "Flash" software; it is all in the BIOS now.

Dell is quite reliable with their choice of hardware manufacturers and BIOS code sources, so after a bachup, I would upgrade.

It is true that one may not always need to upgrade to 'each' available new numeric version of a Mobo BIOS; but if Dell recommends a specific BIOS version, saying it will be last version to be made available for your specific Mobo, I would install it.

It is important to look at the silk-screened info on the Mobo to be certain of its Model / Part number and Revision number, then check on Dells website to verify the info you were given by tech support.

Then one can double check which BIOS version is actually needed for the specific Mobo and CPU that you have installed, as well as any troubleshooting or performance fixes that a newer BIOS version reportedly provides.

After all is double checked, do the BIOS backup and flash, as explained in the computer manual PDF from Dells website (there may be more than (1) manual pertaining to the computer model); the industry trend is to have a separate manual for the BIOS.


As to GMAX, I never used it; if you thought it was relatively easy, wait until you use Sketchup: IMHO,you'll never go back.

There are few hard core old timers who are familiar with GMAX and the whereabouts of documentation and tutorials.

One good source of GMAX info is likely to be Tom Gibson of CalClassics <OOPS ...sorry about the "Old Timer", Tom>.


I hope this info helps a bit more.

GaryGB

here's the link to the new AD4 and SbuilderX files.

KWR1_ADEX_TT

MediaFire is a simple to use free service that lets you put all your photos, documents, music, and video in a single place so you can access them anywhere and share them everywhere.

www.mediafire.com

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Tom:

I downloaded the *.RAR file linked above from MediaFire.com.

My install of WinRAR malfunctioned when resolving the file name and compressed folder contents within Windows-10.

That file decompressed, making an identically named folder chain containing identical files from a existing folder on my disk.


I was ultimately able to work around the anomaly, but I believe it would be best to package those files as a ZIP- not a RAR- file.

I recommend preventing others from incurring this bizarre malfunction by substituting a ZIP for the original RAR immediately.

[EDITED]

BTW: A very useful, well-vetted, ZIP and general compressed archive utility is 7-ZIP (...it's free, and can work with RAR files too):

https://www.7-zip.org/

[EEND_EDIT]


Hopefully others have not already downloaded this suspect RAR file (I do not yet know if this is due to malware).


Please take the above link off line ASAP when you read this, pending further analysis of what caused the anomaly.

Please use unique file names containing a date, for all future linked content as you have done prior to this incident.

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

Actually I think it's a problem with WinRar, it updated lately and it seems to have gone screwy, haven't got a new copy of WinZip yet, mine went AWOL somewhere. Probably happened when I had that stupid PUP on here which has long since been removed and so far the system has remained clean. MB updates their database quite frequently and catches most of everything before it causes problems, it just happened that day because for some reason I forgot to turn the darn thing on.

 

[tgibson]

Windows can create zip files. Select the files, right click, send to, compressed file.

 

[Tomt478]

Oh yeah, thanks, I completely forgot about that.
Here's the updated AD4 file. I didn't include the SBX files because I have abandoned that idea for now. My GPU can't handle the extra graphics correctly. I'll try again after I can upgrade my GPU. Anything added as far as mesh or graphics wise made with SBX, causes sever FPS hits and even stutters, along with flashing graphics. This older GTX960 just can't handle the extra load.

KWR1_ADEX_TT

MediaFire is a simple to use free service that lets you put all your photos, documents, music, and video in a single place so you can access them anywhere and share them everywhere.

www.mediafire.com

 

[Tomt478]

I also forgot about ADE backup which creates its own ZIP file. Anyway, here's an updated AD4 file. It has been renamed to KWR2 because I decided to move the airport location to a new location. I did this to make flight time from my home base to the airport shorter. The Home base is located near Area51 in Nevada, it's slightly closer to Utah than Mexico. Also, just for fun the airport is now located, of all places on Earth, Skinwalker Ranch. Just thought it would be a fitting place for a fantasy land to be located. I checked out everything, and so far nothing got messed up any. I also have made some changes to the roads, and cleaned up a lot more of the vertices for most of the land classes and the shorelines. The roads I went in and put Road Vectors which seems to have solved most of my "vegetation on roads" issues, still a few that are there, but I think it's because the vectors aren't line up perfectly, I'll go in and fix those later. My altitude hasn't changed any so that shouldn't interfere with the "hill" project. I left the ALT the same, it's not that far off from the "actual" ALT of the location which is only 4899ft (roughly 5000ft above sea level). Everything looks good though. If I do spot any descrepancies, I will fix them and update the AD4 file as needed. I'm doing a lot of work to try and clean the project up nicely, I figured since I'm putting all this work into it, I might as well make it look nice and neat.

KWR2_ADEX_TT_20250218153543

MediaFire is a simple to use free service that lets you put all your photos, documents, music, and video in a single place so you can access them anywhere and share them everywhere.

www.mediafire.com

 

[Tomt478]

Disregard that last file.

KWR1_ADEX_TT_20250218160416

MediaFire is a simple to use free service that lets you put all your photos, documents, music, and video in a single place so you can access them anywhere and share them everywhere.

www.mediafire.com

This is the original one, the move did screw up a bit. I'll have to work on that later. I do want to move the project to that location, but the alt creates some problems I'll have to work on. So for now, it stays where it is.

 

[GaryGB]

I also forgot about ADE backup which creates its own ZIP file.

Anyway, here's an updated AD4 file. It has been renamed to KWR2 because I decided to move the airport location to a new location. I did this to make flight time from my home base to the airport shorter. The Home base is located near Area51 in Nevada, it's slightly closer to Utah than Mexico.

Also, just for fun the airport is now located, of all places on Earth, Skinwalker Ranch. Just thought it would be a fitting place for a fantasy land to be located.

I checked out everything, and so far nothing got messed up any. I also have made some changes to the roads, and cleaned up a lot more of the vertices for most of the land classes and the shorelines. The roads I went in and put Road Vectors which seems to have solved most of my "vegetation on roads" issues, still a few that are there, but I think it's because the vectors aren't line up perfectly, I'll go in and fix those later. My altitude hasn't changed any so that shouldn't interfere with the "hill" project. I left the ALT the same, it's not that far off from the "actual" ALT of the location which is only 4899ft (roughly 5000ft above sea level). Everything looks good though. If I do spot any discrepancies, I will fix them and update the AD4 file as needed. I'm doing a lot of work to try and clean the project up nicely, I figured since I'm putting all this work into it, I might as well make it look nice and neat.

KWR2_ADEX_TT_20250218153543

MediaFire is a simple to use free service that lets you put all your photos, documents, music, and video in a single place so you can access them anywhere and share them everywhere.

www.mediafire.com

Disregard that last file.

KWR1_ADEX_TT_20250218160416

MediaFire is a simple to use free service that lets you put all your photos, documents, music, and video in a single place so you can access them anywhere and share them everywhere.

www.mediafire.com

This is the original one, the move did screw up a bit. I'll have to work on that later. I do want to move the project to that location, but the alt creates some problems I'll have to work on. So for now, it stays where it is.

Hi Tom:

I'll take a look at both and will offer feedback later today (Tuesday).


BTW: IIRC, I have 1-Meter terrain and 1.866 cm photo-real satellite imagery source data for the proposed 'new' site.

I would be glad to make it available to you for unrestricted use in FSX provided we do not infringe on "anyone's" rights.


I'll try to find that and refresh my memory on its current extent of coverage later on today, and will post some details ASAP.

I'm fairly certain that your computer could run it as a test of concept using real world elevations.


I'll also test projecting BGLComp and CVX vector content onto the IRL ground elevations as "terrain mesh-clinging" objects.

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

That would be nice. I really would like to move the project to that new location. When I tried it, at the current elev, I got some large mountains popping up everywhere, then when I tried to change the elev to the real-world elev, all of my scenery objects were too low and hidden under the ground, plus anywhere there were flattens, there would be great big "holes". I don't know of any way to change the elev of the airport without having to change the elev of scenery objects and flattens. I'm sure there is a way, but I don't know it.

 

[GaryGB]

That would be nice. I really would like to move the project to that new location. When I tried it, at the current elev, I got some large mountains popping up everywhere, then when I tried to change the elev to the real-world elev, all of my scenery objects were too low and hidden under the ground, plus anywhere there were flattens, there would be great big "holes".

'Mountain' peaks are CVX vector polygons at assigned Altitudes AMSL; these are not affected by local flattens, so they persist.

When the local default / custom terrain mesh matching IRL is displayed, those Polygons will blend into terrain reasonably well.

I don't know of any way to change the elev of the airport without having to change the elev of scenery objects and flattens. I'm sure there is a way, but I don't know it.

For BGLComp Scenery Library Objects placed via ADE Airport or Object.BGLs, XML we may edit Altitudes to AGL, and recompile.


BGL2XML and NotePad++ Search and Replace as previously cited, works well for this to make the process semi-automatic:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/model-converterx-error.433528/post-931255


I will test a compiled *.AD4 with no local AB flatten object(s) and all scenery objects placed as terrain mesh-clinging AGL.

Local AB flattens can then be added back where required / desired after that testing.

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

I don't mind the mountains that surround the airport, but as shown up above, I don't want my roads,buildings, etc... being above everything, and I don't want a bunch of "holes" where my flattens are. I want everything to stay as they are, just move the whole project to the new location without any "headaches" trying to adjust everything. The flattens and things I can deal with, all I have to do is edit the alt of those, but my roads and other objects, there are just too many of them to have to go in and edit their alts. Not too mention my lakes and things also would have to be fixed. I really would like to move the whole thing to the new location, but if it's going to be a lot of "trouble", I'll leave it where it is.

 

[GaryGB]

I don't mind the mountains that surround the airport, but as shown up above, I don't want my roads,buildings, etc... being above everything, and I don't want a bunch of "holes" where my flattens are. I want everything to stay as they are, just move the whole project to the new location without any "headaches" trying to adjust everything. The flattens and things I can deal with, all I have to do is edit the alt of those, but my roads and other objects, there are just too many of them to have to go in and edit their alts. Not too mention my lakes and things also would have to be fixed. I really would like to move the whole thing to the new location, but if it's going to be a lot of "trouble", I'll leave it where it is.

Bearing in mind you expressed a desire to learn how to do these procedures yourself, I had planned to not do them for you.

By that I mean:

* I may do tests on my system while implementing a test-of-concept "Hill" that displays properly and is navigable.

* I may post screenshots to be considered as "horizon-expanding material" to explore new options to enhance your project.

And, I do plan to explain how these things are done, so you can do them your self, on your computer, at your sole discretion.


But, as some procedures may be complex and impractical to complete within- what I understand to be- your 'RPG' event time schedule, in a case of an impeding deadline, I am prepared to link compiled scenery with source code you can use initially; then, if need be, you can learn / edit / output later.

Conceptually, tasks I mentioned may seem challenging at first glance, or if described verbally; but some are quick and painless.

Source files for BGLComp or SHP2VEC compiled objects, can be edited for Altitude attributes using simple Search-and-Replace.

It is of course your decision how you output your project, but I assure you ...there should be less tiresome 'busy work' ahead.


More to come as I grapple with the terrain data and start some compilers running.

In my approach to scenery building, 'Terra-grappling' precedes 'Terra-forming'.



PS: On the subject of as-yet unresolved CVX vector object mis-alignments, non-closed poly-lines etc. that yield inconsistent rendering, and which have greatly complicated my anticipated time allocation to implement a sloped flatten "Hill" on your 'island', you may wish to review the concepts and workflows used by Jim Vile and Jon Masterson in these tutorials:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/landclass-visibility-problem.15173/

https://scruffyduck.screenstepslive...-how-do-i-remove-a-stock-airport-from-the-sim

Note that the core concept of FS Development "Best Practices" are used by both Jim and Jon: Exclude ...and... Replace


I would recommend using SBuilderX to edit Appended ESRI *.SHP files output by CvxExtractor from ADE's CVX vector BGL.

In the SBuilderX GUI during such edits, I would configure the workspace as follows:

SBuilderX Menu > View > LOD Grid > LOD-9 ("clip" boundary of QMID-11 TMF Grid Quads for most CVX vectors)

NOTE:

SBuilderX Menu > View > LOD Grid > LOD-13 ("clip" boundary of QMID-15 TMF Grid Quads for Freeway Traffic CVX vectors)


At the same time, this should also be displayed in the workspace:

SBuilderX Menu > View > QMID Grid > QMID-23 ("Snap-To" and "Optimal Render Textured Surface" boundary of CVX vectors)


Select poly-lines of Polygons so Vertices display Green > Right-click > Properties to verify each CVX vector ID type.

Then drag vertices and boundary lines of Polygons into precise alignment with Green lines of the QMID-23 Grid

Diagonally drag vertices / Polygon boundary lines; bisect diagonally Green lines of QMID-23 Grid Quads to vary line 'Headings'.


Select poly-lines of Polygons then Right-click > Properties to verify each CVX vector ID type.

Then drag vertices and boundary lines of Polygons into precise alignment with Green lines of the QMID-23 Grid


See the excellent work of "Simulondo" (aka 'Jose') in his post showing the technique for optimal rendering of CVX vectors:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/flattens.425495/post-632954


When ready to compile CVX vectors to BGL, use this method to optimally process CVX vector vertices before sent to SHP2VEC:

Select poly-lines of Polygons so Vertices display Green > Edit > Snap To QMID

This will verify CVX vector vertices (in the selected polygon only !) ...are aligned to the LOD-21 / QMID-23 grid.

Repeat this for all CVX vector Polygons in the project, before compiling the CVX vector BGL(s).

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

I've gone in and straightened up all of my lines and aligned them up pretty good. Yeah, I decided to undertake this project so I can learn how to do things like this. I only need help with getting certain things to work. I had no intention of having you actually do it for me, I just need to be shown how to undertake it. I understand a little bit better now, I've been studying the SBX manual, but it's not very detailed about polys and such. I've actually placed the "search and rescue" part of the RPG on permanent hold until further notice. I have to get everything else in place and until I learn how to do things, that will have to wait a while, possible sometime this summer before I can even think about that part of the game. It's going to take me a while to figure all of this stuff out.

 

[GaryGB]

I've gone in and straightened up all of my lines and aligned them up pretty good. Yeah, I decided to undertake this project so I can learn how to do things like this. I only need help with getting certain things to work. I had no intention of having you actually do it for me, I just need to be shown how to undertake it. I understand a little bit better now, I've been studying the SBX manual, but it's not very detailed about polys and such.

Beside the fact that there are multiple "Textured Poly" types one can create in SBuilderX ...as cited in this post:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/editing-bgl.459694/post-931605


...tutorials in the post I linked for you should provide ample explanation as a supplement to the info in SBuilderX' Help file, ex:

SBuilderX Menu > Help > {Contents} tab:

Working with SBuilderX > Working with Points, Lines and Polygons​

Making Scenery with SBuilderX > Polygons​

Making Scenery with SBuilderX > Tutorials​

I've actually placed the "search and rescue" part of the RPG on permanent hold until further notice. I have to get everything else in place and until I learn how to do things, that will have to wait a while, possible sometime this summer before I can even think about that part of the game. It's going to take me a while to figure all of this stuff out.

If we "figure this stuff out", imagine tracking of newer FS versions crowding out older info, then refreshing ones memory.


GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

What I will most likely wind up doing is give up on the current island, I just can't get the altitude to go up any no matter what I do. I think I will wind up just removing that area altogether and just completely re-do it without the lake part and just try making it into a mountain by itself and add other stuff to it later. that way I know all of my vectors are right and aligned and I can figure out what lines pertain to the actual land and which ones pertain to something else. I think because things are so "screwy" with the vectors and polys on that island, that they just aren't going to do what I want them to do. I've pretty much tried everything I can possibly think of to raise the altitude of the darn thing and nothing works. So I think it's time to start over fresh with a new area. I need to go in and remove part of the airport background poly using some exclusions first, then work on the elevations, I think having a "flatten" under everything is what is screwing things up. It allows the land to be lowered, but because it's a "flatten", it won't allow things to be raised higher than the flatten background. So I need to remove that variable before attempting to create my mountain. I want to work on the textured poly problem first. I have my folders separated and loaded into the scenery list as the first thing to load. As I stated, hydro polys and such show up fine, but textured polys refuse to show up for some reason. I place the files in the same folders, so they should be loading up before anything else, there should be no reason why the textured polys don't show up unless it has something to do with the texture file itself. Is there any certain size or resolution a texture file should be? I bassically just took one of the stock texture files and edited it, leaving all the size and res the same, then just saved it under a different name to use as my custom texture. It compiles with no errors, it just don't show up in FSX. Could it be that FSX won't display textured polys?

 

[GaryGB]

What I will most likely wind up doing is give up on the current island, I just can't get the altitude to go up any no matter what I do. I think I will wind up just removing that area altogether and just completely re-do it without the lake part and just try making it into a mountain by itself and add other stuff to it later.

That way I know all of my vectors are right and aligned and I can figure out what lines pertain to the actual land and which ones pertain to something else. I think because things are so "screwy" with the vectors and polys on that island, that they just aren't going to do what I want them to do. I've pretty much tried everything I can possibly think of to raise the altitude of the darn thing and nothing works.

So I think it's time to start over fresh with a new area. I need to go in and remove part of the airport background poly using some exclusions first, then work on the elevations.

I don't think you need to do a radical "island-ectomy"; you just need to step through the CVX vectors to "Exclude and Replace".


Because I keep answering the vast number of rapid-fire queries you post to FSDEV, I forfeit production and testing activity.

By now I may otherwise have several tests-of-concept for you to load up / fly / drive; perhaps you might 'group' your queries ?

BTW: Queries you pose do show an increased awareness of pertinent production issues that may merit consideration / testing.

And, I do see what you are reading is beginning to make more sense; it does take time; I learned SBuilderX only very slowly.

I think having a "flatten" under everything is what is screwing things up. It allows the land to be lowered, but because it's a "flatten", it won't allow things to be raised higher than the flatten background. So I need to remove that variable before attempting to create my mountain.

Possibly; before I can create / display a test-of-concept "Hill" via sloped polygons, I must exclude the 'island' AB Flatten.

I want to work on the textured poly problem first. I have my folders separated and loaded into the scenery list as the first thing to load. As I stated, hydro polys and such show up fine, but textured polys refuse to show up for some reason. I place the files in the same folders, so they should be loading up before anything else, there should be no reason why the textured polys don't show up unless it has something to do with the texture file itself.

There are other factors such as Priority and alpha-numeric file naming which may be considered after testing common things:

https://scruffyduck.screenstepslive.com/s/help_docs/m/20268/l/199760-priority-matters

Is there any certain size or resolution a texture file should be?

This usually only applies if attempting to display custom photo-real satellite / aerial imagery over FSX default LOD-15 textures.

I basically just took one of the stock texture files and edited it, leaving all the size and res the same, then just saved it under a different name to use as my custom texture. It compiles with no errors, it just don't show up in FSX.

Could it be that FSX won't display textured polys?

ZIP the custom textured poly up- with all mapped texture(s)- and link me to it via PM... I'll try to see what is involved.

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

OK, I'll zip up the SBP,SBX,and BMP files, along with the BGL file and let you take a look at it. Maybe you can figure out what the heck I'm doing wrong,(or not doing at all).

Land

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Land Texture both in BMP and BMPDTX format (tried both)

KWR1_WTP

MediaFire is a simple to use free service that lets you put all your photos, documents, music, and video in a single place so you can access them anywhere and share them everywhere.

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SBP and SBX files of the project

PROJECT_TEXP

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BGL files Created by SBX

Just for testing and trying to get it to work, the textured poly is placed over the "top" of the island. The land should be a reddish color, but it is not. It stays the same no matter what I do.

This is getting to be just as much of a problem as creating the mountain. I'm not sure what is going on. I may try creating a "new" airport (just a simple one) and see if I can make things work on it. Maybe I can figure out what I am doing or not doing by working with a "clean slate" instead of working with a project that is already created. Maybe starting with something "empty" will give me some idea if what I want to do will even work or not. At least it might tell me if it's something I'm doing wrong or if it's something that just can't be done in FSX. It's completely possible I'm fighting a loosing battle here. I may have to look into learning to make custom photoreal scenery to do what I want to do. Or at least try and download some photoreal addons and play around with the textures to achieve what I want. I don't really know at this point. But for now, I'm giving it a rest. If you could take a look at the files and maybe give me some insight as to what is going on, I would appreciate it. I'm just out of ideas for now.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Tom:

I'll download and take a look at the files tonight.

To temporarily eliminate BGLComp content, we can try loading from 74V Roosevelt Municipal, and not place the ADE airport BGL in the \Scenery sub-folder.

Then, when at a desired location for inspection at / near the island, save a Flight *.FLT file.

GaryGB